Artemisia de Vine — A Former Professional Dominatrix & Sex Worker: All About Sexual Fantasy Stories, Erotic Pleasure, Self-Discovery and More – #29

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Artemisia de Vine has seen it all.

Artmemisia is a former ProDomme, Sex Worker, and Somatic Sexologist.

Now – she’s a sexual fantasy coach and helps people explore the meaning behind their fantasies.

Helping them bring to life their wildest, kinkiest desires.

So that they can experience more pleasure in every area of their life.

This podcast episode covers everything you need to know about sexual fantasy stories. It will take you on a titillating journey that will challenge your sexual perceptions.

It will leave you with a newfound appreciation for the extraordinary and endless world of sexual fantasies.

We delve into the depths of desire and self-discovery with the enchanting Artemisia de Vine, and hear about her past experiences as a sex worker and ProDomme.

Artemisia reveals the surprising ways in which your sexual fantasies can reshape your life.

How they are your greatest asset 🍑

The gateway into deeper states in your unconscious mind.

It’s about truly letting go on the deepest level of your sexual being.

And diving into the world of erotic, unending pleasure.

Imagine a world where your deepest, darkest desires hold the key to personal growth and profound connections.

Artemisia will guide you through the labyrinth of your sexual fantasy stories, unravelling their significance and illuminating their transformative potential.

These sexual fantasies, she explains, tap into a primal energy within you, liberating you from the constraints of social norms.

They lead you toward a path of self-empowerment and self-expression.

It’s about going beyond the Big O.

(as wild as that sounds!)

Orgasms are amazing, but they’re just a checkpoint on your sexual fantasy journey.

Artemisia de Vine challenges the conventional concept of the orgasm, revealing that sexual fantasies create a unique space that extends FAR beyond the climax.

It’s a world where the boundaries of pleasure are pushed, and you can explore new territories of sensation and connection.

Either on your own, or with a partner.

So brace yourself for a mind-blowing journey that redefines pleasure in all its captivating forms.

How does the ego fit into all of this?

Artemisia reveals a controversial yet thought-provoking perspective on the role of ego in shaping your sexual fantasy stories.

She explains that your desires usually stem from a desire to appease your ego, to transcend the limitations you perceive within yourself.

To play out scenarios that challenge everything you believe about yourself.

Yes … everything.

By acknowledging this facet of your fantasies, you can gain a deeper understanding of yourself, your ego, and open the door to self-pleasure and growth.

It’s about creating a safe container to turn your sexual fantasy stories into reality.

How do you do this?

Artemisia introduces us to her process: The deVinery Method.

With this approach, you can excavate the roots of your sexual desires and uncover the power they hold.

Understanding what they mean.

And why you have them.

Because by embracing your sexual fantasies in a consensual and beneficial way, you can revolutionize your life.

And level up your experience in the bedroom in ways you never thought possible.

After all, isn’t that what sex is all about?

So if you’re ready to dive into the depths of your turn-ons and imaginative sexual fantasies, check out this episode.

Artemisia has a wealth of knowledge to help you have the craziest, most fulfilling sexual experiences ever.

Turning your sexual fantasy stories – into reality.

Join us on this eye-opening adventure and prepare to have your sexual perspectives forever transformed.

In this episode, you’ll learn…

• The difference between having embodied sex vs. playing out sexual fantasy stories ❤️
• Artemisia’s wild experiences and learnings as a former sex-worker and professional dominatrix 🔥
• What to do if you have a rape fantasy 🥶 (or some other dangerous fantasy – you’re not crazy, I promise!)
• What your sexual fantasies mean, their purpose, and how to live out your sexual fantasy stories IRL 👄
• Specific strategies and techniques for unlocking your sexual energy 🔑
• The many, many benefits of using sexual fantasies to change your life in huge, powerful ways 🙌

Connect With Artemisia de Vine

• artemisiadevine.com
• Artemisia’s free mini course on desire

Time stamps:

• 4:33 – Intro to Sexual Fantasies and Artemisia
• 14:42 – Exploring Role Play and Embodied Sex
• 27:18 – Sexual Fantasies and Ego Exploration
• 38:05 – Understanding Sexual Fantasies
• 48:42 – Sexual Fantasies and Personal Growth
• 54:22 – Sexual States of Flow
• 1:02:19 – Exploring Erotic Fantasies and Conscious Desire

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Ellie Goode — Host of the Provocative “Sex, Money & Rage“ Podcast, Nervous System Junkie, and Plant Psychonaut 🌿

I created Sex, Money & Rage to talk about everything that’s taboo. BDSM. Plant medicine. Healthy Rage. Kink. Emotions. Boundaries. Money issues. Less thinking, more feeling. How to get into your body and silence your overactive mind.

Sex, Money & Rage provides straight-up, powerful nervous system tools to help you dominate life’s toughest moments.

All podcast episodes are located here.

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Transcript:

Ellie Goode: 0:04

Welcome to the Sex Money and Rage podcast.

Artemisia de Vine: 0:08

They wanted to talk dirty to get there. That is what works for them and they think that’s just how sex is, and so they don’t realise that there’s other ways of doing things, especially if there’s somebody who is used to taking the lead in sex and maybe has had to take the lead in sex all the time And therefore they only follow their own instinct. They don’t have much feedback from somebody that they’re with And the other person’s following the doubts. They’re leading the doubts, so they’re just going to follow their own turn-ons, and then they don’t ever really encounter the wide variety of different paths that they can get there.

Ellie Goode: 0:44

Welcome back to Sex Money and Rage Rage. I’m your host, Ellie, and today I interviewed Artemisia de Vine. It was an incredible episode, all about exploring sexual fantasies and learning how to be in your body and also let go of your mind, let go of your ego, through the lens of sexual fantasies, which was super interesting. I learned so, so much from this episode. It was super fun to interview. Artemisia is incredible and has a wealth of knowledge all about sex and BDSM and sexual fantasies, so it was super interesting to have this conversation. No matter who you are, no matter where you are, no matter what gender you are, i think you’re going to get a lot out of this episode. There’s tons of really good information, helpful information about how to explore sexual fantasies in a whole new way And what, what do they mean? What are they, what are they signaling to us in our bodies, in our minds, and really pulling that apart. So that was super, super fun. If you’ve been listening to Sex Money and Rage and you’re enjoying it, please go, leave a five star review. I also wanted to say a huge thank you to everyone who has reached out and encouraged me with the podcast and told me how much you’re enjoying the episodes. It honestly means so much to me, so thank you to all of you. Please smash the five star reading or review button right now, if you haven’t already, and let’s jump in. Today we have a super interesting special guest, Artemisia Devine, who is a former sex worker, professional dominatrix and certified somatic sexologist who created tailored experiences for thousands of clients. She was literally paid to become other people’s sexual fantasies And through this lived experience she developed a whole new theory about why we have sexual fantasies and their unexpected benefits. Her unique perspective is being enthusiastically received by sexologists and therapists alike, many of whom have signed up for sexual fantasy coaching themselves. She’s now writing a book and teaches the deVinery method, which is both a philosophy and a practical set of tools for accessing the counterintuitive value within our smutty turn-ons. Her clients tend to be self-aware. Intelligent people with integrity who want to use the erotic as a lens for self-discovery, have confidence in the art of creating powerful sensual sexual experiences that access the full potential of their erotic beings. So sounds so incredible. I’m really excited to chat today. So, Artemisia, first of all, welcome, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much. What got you interested in sexual fantasies?

Artemisia de Vine: 3:32

To be honest, it is the responses that I got from my clients that got me really intrigued in the first place when I was a sex worker and a professional dominatrix When I first started I was not. I didn’t know what I was doing. I thought I did.

Ellie Goode: 3:50

I didn’t know what I was doing at all.

Artemisia de Vine: 3:55

I had been sex-working for years already. Beforehand I’d read everything I had had. I was the kind of person who liked to go out in the town by herself and pick up a new person every Saturday night and have an experiment, and I had been deliberately working through all of my good girl-itis to get to my own authentic sexual expression for years before I started sex work. So I thought you know, i know what I’m doing, i know how this thing works. But being thrown in the deep end. I tell you what Sex work is. Definitely It sheds light on the rest of society. It’s a concentrated form of who we are. So when you’re encountering that number of people all at once, like sometimes, you know, when I first started I didn’t know how to pace myself. When I could see 10 people a day I was like who am I being? And I was like who?

Ellie Goode: 5:03

that’s amazing.

Artemisia de Vine: 5:11

Yeah, i learnt to pace myself, but when I first started, i was only having a few minutes to speak to someone on the phone. Then they had just a few pictures of me and a very brief description of what I was offering, and then I would turn up to their door. because at that time it was illegal to do in-calls in Victoria. I had to go to them, which is a law. that is not a clever law. But, anyway, yeah.

Ellie Goode: 5:48

Interesting.

Artemisia de Vine: 5:50

Yeah, not good, but that has recently changed, which I’m absolutely delighted about. But I would turn up to this door, you know, having no idea really who was on the other side or what flavoured sex that they would want. So imagine turning up to a house in Paran, a townhouse. I’ve got my female security guard the one I hired in the car who drove me there so I could answer the calls on the phone while she was driving me there. I met her at a bar. She’s cool And I would knock On the door, knowing that somebody was going to answer the door. I was about to have sex with them. They had in their head a story about what was going to happen, the kind of sex that they wanted, and they had no way of articulating to me what that was. So it felt like walking into an acting Improv scene halfway through the scene, where you have no idea what the the motions are.

Ellie Goode: 7:01

What a story are they?

Artemisia de Vine: 7:02

are they telling in their head? Are they excited by somebody who is Closed off and cold and distant that they have to seduce and then feel triumphant when they, you know, get a wild reaction out of out of them? are they turned on by someone who is, you know, looking up at them with Bambi eyes and making them feel like they’re? you know all that? they’re so cool, they’re the teacher. Oh, wow, you’re so good. Are they? Are they excited by intimacy and connection and closeness? are they excited by Somebody who wants to take control and knows what she wants and doesn’t care what they want? There was so many different options and have and they would just be assuming That the way that they liked sex is just the way sex is. So I had to read them in the moment, i had to bounce off them in the moment and Turns out, i was really good at it. Awesome turned out. I was really good at being Following where they desire wanted to go. And Because it was sex work, because I was being paid, i wasn’t actually trying to get my needs met. I was trying. My full attention Was on theirs for the first time, like the sex I’d had before, that, i was trying to get my own needs, when I was focusing on myself as much as them. This is different. This is like Who are you? You’re already in an altered state of consciousness because, let’s face it, when somebody is horny, that’s an altered state. You think differently, your nerve endings respond differently, your logic is different. They’re already in there and they’re expecting me to mind rate. Wow, what happened when I started focusing on their turn-ons only and focusing on following where they needed to go? Is we kept stumbling across these really interesting That sound pretty out there when I try and describe them? They sound like I used to keep notes in my diary The things clients would say after sessions, because I No one is gonna believe me. But what we kept stumbling across was Experiences that were way more profound than we expected. They might have initially booked me because I’ve got big breasts. You know I want to. I want to have sex with a busty blonde, and I know I want the girlfriend experience. That’s about as far as they would know about their own motives. Or the porn star experience. They want it to be more wild and primal. So Or they might have asked for a specific fetish. This is when I was still a sex worker. Before I was a pro-dom and I Notice that if I followed their, that we kept stumbling on these states that occasionally went into not just letting go into a powerful orgasms or Getting into this wonderful playful flow state of erotic enjoyment But we did drop even deeper. We drop even deeper into a place that All our guards are completely down. A stranger that I just met and And our guards are somehow Completely down and we’re sharing this moment. We’re sharing it as as a game of sexual fun or smutty, you know, whatever it is, or maybe even intimacy, depending on which, which direction it went. Yeah, but we’re now dropping into a state where what I can only describe as Our egos are the guards are down, when the things that we normally protect ourselves from, you know, we’re all, we’ve got our cards up because we’re worried about our self-esteem or our status or Our self Identity. Even right, they that was down. And how did that get down with a complete stranger That I only met just recently? How did that Enormous switch happen for both of us in such a short period of time? so then I became really curious about Following their turn-ons. If this happened. When I trusted their turn-ons and, specifically, i started up, i Moved from doing that, that, that initial kind of sex work, and I end up setting up a whole place space in Sydney With various different rooms. There was, like you know, a whole dungeon. I ended up training as a dominatrix and learning all sorts of things from, from. We were and I had a, you know, cross-dressing room, a massage room, a beautiful bourgeois, various different places that people could come, and one of the clients actually named it the divinery because of my last name obviously divine, but also because It is about divining yourself through your rotic when you come to play And and it’s been called the divinery ever since. But I started setting up this real curiosity. I’d say, okay, i’m really going to look into this. Why is this happening? Why is it happening when I trust their turn-ons and follow their erotic map? What’s, why is this? I need to. I need to understand this more and And to understand it more, i’d asked them about their sexual fantasies. I sit them down on my red velvet couch. We’d have a cup of tea before we play. At this stage It’s no longer the two minutes, it’s now a half an hour conversation. I evolved And I got really good at getting an awful lot of information out of them within that time and And asking them about their sexual fantasies and noticing the erotic narrative that under it was like underlying it. It’s like these are stories, these are just stories, and stories take us somewhere inside ourselves. They’re not meant to be enacted rich literally There, but they are Absolutely perfect psychological mechanisms that create an effect on us. That and I and I just and I realized, oh my god, sexual fantasies are the exact story that our egos need to hear in order to let their guards down, for us to feel the vulnerability of pleasure, connection and sometimes even further into expanded states of consciousness. There’s even Fuller potential there. Wow, sexual fantasies aren’t something to run away from. Their perfect stories and if we don’t take them literally and miss and be confused and About what they are, but see them for the brilliant stories They are, we can I can Create experiences from each of my clients tailored to their particular unique of iron wiring, because each person’s ego is going to need a different story, isn’t it? it’s going to need a different, slightly different nuance. So I got really good at hearing those mechanisms and they’re not trying to live them out exactly. It’s. It’s actually. I learned pretty quickly that that it’s not as effective to try and live out a fantasy as it is in someone’s mind’s eye, but It’s really powerful, like knock your socks off. Powerful to find a way to live out the, the Psychological mechanisms in embodied play and created as an experience based on those particular fantasies. And that’s when my clients reactions that I just kept following what worked by listening and honing and and tweaking this process better and better, until I was regularly getting Comments From people saying, wow, this is what I’ve been searching for my whole life. This is what I really was trying to feel when I was trying to get my need met by, you know, going in and seeing a busty blonde, but it wasn’t feeling the same satisfaction that I thought I would. From my fantasies, i was living out the exact, you know, sex act from the, from the fantasies, but it wasn’t fulfilling me always. Still, it was fun, it was hot, but this is different. This is the feeling that I’ve been searching for my whole life and I didn’t even know how to put into words. This is something, and and by the time we’re at the end, you’re not in a smutty headspace anymore. You, you know, in a kind of pure space. It’s kind of weird how it flips, that It flips around and they’d say things like this feels like I’ve taken acid and ecstasy at the same time, but I feel the most grounded and most present I’ve ever felt. This feels like my heart is open. This feels and even weirdly, this feels wholesome, even after we just did that weird shit.

Ellie Goode: 16:38

So cool.

Artemisia de Vine: 16:41

So my this is what got me interested in this process.

My this is what got me interested in sexual fantasies is just watching my clients reactions And then honing that process. What do you think Just just to give me a clue What do you think? Just imagine that your listeners might be thinking sexual fantasies are like? what do you think they might be thinking about them?

Ellie Goode: 17:08

It’s a good question, like in terms of like some examples of sexual fantasies or what, what they think about sexual fantasies.

Artemisia de Vine: 17:17

Yeah, what do they think they they are? because I’m throwing this at you. That’s a bit unfair.

Ellie Goode: 17:23

No, no, that’s right.

Artemisia de Vine: 17:24

Some of the narratives you might have heard, or you might imagine that they might think the role of sexual fantasies are.

Ellie Goode: 17:32

I think, yeah, probably for listeners, probably for most people, sexual fantasies I think people would expect it’s a way to orgasm or a way to feel physical pleasure, maybe like a means to an end, maybe something that they might want to try one day, but don’t really know if they would, depending on what it is, like you said. I think it’s sort of like I remember reading in Esther Perrell’s book You know, women, a lot of women, have a right fantasy, but that doesn’t mean they actually want to be right. And so, you know, i think a lot of the times people have these fantasies That maybe trigger an emotion in them or a feeling in their body that make them aroused, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that they want that to be actualized in real life. So I think, but I think for a lot of people, myself included, like a fantasy has been a means to an end Sexually I mean, i don’t really fantasize anymore, but yeah, i think that that would be my sort of guess for most people, but I could be so wrong.

Artemisia de Vine: 18:37

So, yeah, Yeah, okay, and so you don’t fantasize anymore. I know you’re not the the interviewer here, but I’m curious about why?

Ellie Goode: 18:48

that is why you don’t fantasize anymore.

Artemisia de Vine: 18:50

Yeah, I don’t know.

Ellie Goode: 18:52

Yeah, i don’t know. It’s a good question, i guess for me, a lot of my, i guess Experience has just been I get so much out of just being in the physical sensation of my body during sex or during you know, a pleasure practice or masturbation or whatever, of just being in my body, that it is to me the fantasy seems to take me out of my body for whatever reason. Maybe I’m doing it wrong, i don’t know. But yeah, i, and it’s almost like it became a bit of a distraction, i guess. Um, and so I don’t know, i just got really into being in my body and that’s just, yeah, what I prefer. Now, i don’t know.

Artemisia de Vine: 19:43

Maybe not prefer, but that’s just yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Ellie Goode: 19:49

I think you’re not alone in that.

Artemisia de Vine: 19:51

Pardon.

Ellie Goode: 19:52

Yeah, so I just said that. that’s just how it goes at the moment.

Artemisia de Vine: 19:57

Yeah.

Ellie Goode: 19:57

Yeah.

Artemisia de Vine: 19:58

And we go through different phases too, don’t we? But I that’s. I don’t think you’re alone at all. I think that that’s actually, and actually, I think that’s the first step to getting the most out of your sexual fantasies anyway is to learn how to be to be really present, because I think that most people uh teach actually what you just said. They teach that uh, to be embodied. We need to not go into our sexual fantasies but be fully present to our body, sensations and to our partner. Um, and it does feel like sexual fantasy is going into your head and it and it is very confusing for people that it seems like, uh, they are diametrically opposed and couldn’t possibly be um, uh, together, um, but I want to take it at a third step. I think the very first step is absolutely correct. You do need to learn how to recognize what is fantasy, what is projection, and become fully present in the moment and then bring out the key elements of that story consensually within a um, a container, in the um, a game of play where you are fully present with your senses, you are fully sent present with your partner. But you’re now deliberately enacting the same psychological mechanisms that you learned from your fantasies, um, uh, because they are a map that can take you somewhere. But initially, people, um, well, let’s put it this way, as I said before, um, sex. But clients are just a reflection of the rest of society, they’re just a concentrated for they, they just ask their. Well, the people you know, they’re in your social groups, they may even be you, um, yeah, but you get to. You get to see so many at a time. I learned really quickly that people did not realize that they were projecting a fantasy onto you. They thought that’s just how sex was and they, um, were not intentional about it at all. So somebody would come in with a desire for, um, porn star sex and wanted to go into a primal headspace and, um, they wanted to talk dirty to get there. That was what works for them And they think that’s just how sex is All right. And so they don’t realize that there’s other ways of doing things, especially if there’s somebody who is used to taking the lead and they’re not, um, taking the lead in sex and or maybe has had to take the lead in sex all the time And therefore they only follow their own instinct. They don’t, they don’t have much feedback from somebody that they’re with And the other person’s following the dance. They’re leading the dance, so they’re just going to follow their own turn ons And then they don’t ever really encounter the wide variety of different paths that they can get there And they, wow. Coming back to your point about that. Let’s get come back to your point. Um, when I’ve been talking to authors recently being being, um, talking to lots of other authors, cause I’m writing a book and, uh, they say that every person who reads your book has a different version of your book in their head. And so when they talk to the author about the book, the authors often whoa, you had an entirely different experience. I’m reseeing my entire work through your eyes, now that’s. That’s completely different, right? So each one of us also has a version of of each other in our heads, right So? um, uh, each, each person I know has a different version of who Artemisia is, and often people when they’re not being fully present and connected. We’ll have a conversation with you even though you’re sitting in front of you, as though you are that version of you that’s in their head rather than the actual human being in front of you. And to access the best sex, we want to feel seen and connected. We don’t want to experience somebody else’s projection on us. We want somebody else to not only see us but but revel in being with us and, and um, fully accept and delight in us. That’s, that’s what we yearn for. So learning to be present is is vital in being able to actually see the human being in front of you and have really fulfilling sex, even if it’s casual sex, we still want that. You still want to be seen. You don’t want somebody to just project their stuff onto you. Otherwise, you know, you don’t get your own needs met Basically. Yeah, you’re doing you know, yeah, and, as you know, um, i mean maybe you want to say add some things about, about how that feels to be fully present when you’re engaging in sexuality on an embodied level. You’re now connected to your own feelings. You’re now connected to your own, um, not just just emotions, but that the nuances that can just you know a touch, can now ripple through your entire body when you’re fully present with your body. Is that? what’s your experience been like?

Ellie Goode: 25:47

Totally.

Artemisia de Vine: 25:47

Yeah, yeah.

Ellie Goode: 25:50

Yeah, yeah, totally, i mean cause. For me, it started with just being present in my own body and even in a non-sexual way, just learning what does my skin feel like, you know, in my hands, or what does it feel like to sit on a chair, like really basic physical sensations, and as that, that opened as I worked on opening just my awareness of my body and myself, and then I brought that into the sexual realm. It was like having sex for the first time, like you said I think you said it really well like a single touch ripples through your whole body. It’s. It’s like, yeah, it’s like to have that awareness not only of your own body but of another person’s body as well, touching yours. It’s like, unlike anything I’ve ever experienced, it was really. It’s just been, yeah, really healing actually in a lot of ways, to feel a sense of safety with another person and to feel that amount of just physical pleasure, and that was like I didn’t know this was possible. This is really amazing. So, yeah, i think that, yeah, it’s super powerful to be present and aware, like with yourself and your own body, and then to be able to bring that in with another person or a partner. Yeah, it’s just, it’s really cool.

Artemisia de Vine: 27:15

Yeah, i agree with you. I discovered that too. I went off and, in my curiosity about to try and work out what Neath was happening with my clients, i went off and learned lots of different spirituality, sexuality, traditions, and in part of that I became a certified somatic sexologist and did sexological body work, which teaches you how to be fully present in your body and not rely on fantasies at all. And it is mind blowing that you go, wow, this can take me into this beautiful erotic trance state. You can go into this flow state from here. That is wow, it’s wonderful, isn’t it? I don’t know how to explain it. You’re mirror neurons, sink with somebody else, you co-regulate your nervous systems and it just feels like you’re in flow together and it can be such a powerful thing to experience. But then I found that obviously there was something still missing for me. There was an itch that still wasn’t being scratched, and it was only when I came full circle and brought the fantasies back, the wisdom inside the fantasies back, and started creating play, that I started dropping into that deeper layer again. All right, this, oh, these fantasies are genius. Then there are often things that you don’t want to live out literally, like the rape fantasy You do not want to live out literally ever right, but it is something that he’s creating a really powerful effect. What is it doing? What is it triggering in us? that is that is, you know, time and time again, somebody who just came because they liked big tits didn’t really, that was the extent of it. They were horny And then later on they’re all whoa. I just had the most profound experience in my life. What the hell was that?

Ellie Goode: 29:17

What was that Yeah?

Artemisia de Vine: 29:22

By following this map that’s in there. It’s like, okay, let’s put these two together, let’s be fully present, recognize what is fantasy, so that we can now consensually enact it. We’re not projecting anymore, we’re both being seen. We’re now playing consensually And I realized that this, as I said before, it is the exact story that we need to let our guards down, our ego guards down specifically. So if you can imagine and this is just a metaphor model, not a science model, but you know we’re talking about stories, so use a story to illustrate the point Imagine that there is a force inside of you that is in your unconscious. It lives in your unconscious And so it only speaks in the logic of your unconscious. It doesn’t know any other language. It sends symbolic sorts of things, messages to you, but it creates desires, it knows what you’re currently missing and what you’re resisting, and it sends you a symbolic story. And it’s not sending it to your conscious mind, to your logical mind. It’s sending it directly, like a love letter to your ego And it’s saying okay, ego, this is the story. You need to feel appeased, otherwise you’re gonna stay guarded And you cannot connect with anyone if your ego is in guarded place, so it’s desires entire job is to convince ego to stand down temporarily so you can access and share pleasure, connection And, as I discovered, some of those really profound states that I’d only ever really experienced through other kinds of things like psychedelics or meditation or dancing madly for 24 hours, i hadn’t really. We were dropping into that. Within an hour of meeting each other We were already there with no drugs involved at all, and we’ve got to take this seriously. This is something really cool is happening here. We’ve got to notice this. Let’s play with this. So that’s why sexual fantasies take the really weird forms they do because they’re stories that make sense to ego, not your logical mind, and ego is always defending self. It wants to keep it, doesn’t like any change of status quo, it doesn’t want you to shift into another state, it wants to stay where it is. So it will always resist and it wants to protect your self worth. You know it gets very upset when somebody you know you felt it. Surely when somebody just says something a little bit niggly about it, it won’t get to you Like it defences up. It’s the opposite of connection, right Opposite. There’s a barrier between you and them And it’s worried about status, which is saving face. When somebody says something like you know, your ego acts up. When you say it and says something like did you just patronize me with that comment? Do you think you’re above me? You need to be pulled down a peg or two. This is ego getting really. Yeah, it’s job. It’s supposed to protect us and it’s a really important job to have. But this kind of barrier between us and them keeps us separate, doesn’t it? It’s the opposite of actually merging into even layers of your own self. It keeps, it literally gives you blind spots. You can’t even see yourself fully Like you know you. can you know that? because how many, how many? you know your folks, if your friends, that they’re completely blind to themselves. Their ego is protecting them. We all do it.

Ellie Goode: 33:27

We all do it.

Artemisia de Vine: 33:28

And in fact we can’t survive in the world without an ego. It’s really important to put your ego back on after the erotic experience so that you’ve got self-protection. But if you want to move from self, from I focus to we focus and then maybe even to all I’m connected with the all, the everything focus, all right, oneness experiences The ego has to temporarily get out of the driver’s seat. And the first level of that, as you said rightly, is a sexual fantasy, and you’ve experienced it yourself. If you want to think about it, a sexual fantasy is a way to get to an orgasm, and an orgasm is a moment where the ego has to have let go enough for you to be able to have that orgasm. It has to. The French call it la petite mort, the little death, because it’s a little ego death. It’s just like a moment where you’ve shifted state of consciousness just temporarily, like a little taste of that right. So that sexual fantasy already did that for you. What if we deliberately engaged it in an embodied way? What if we stopped projecting our fantasies and instead enthusiastically played with them on purpose and got consent with from each other, like instead of just projecting onto each other, like going okay, i would really like to have this experience of feeling this and this and this, and my sexual fantasies show me the way to do. It is this way or this way or this way. Are you willing to play that role for me in part or in full, and can we negotiate that And then starting to deliberately play? imagine the intimacy. It’s this level of acceptance you get when someone wants to play with your innermost secrets. They want. That to me feels so much more accepted than somebody who only wants to see my nice side, who only wants to stare into my eyes and breathe together and to where, fully embodied, that leads to beautiful ecstatic trance states. I’ve been there with it, but they were still a part of me that was never seen and never accepted and never. There’s still something that was missing and bringing our fantasies back on this level. Is that answer that scratch the actual itch behind the? yeah with the itch? Does that make sense to you? Can you ask me questions, cause I do geek out and I’m not sure if I’m if anything’s confusing, please ask me.

Ellie Goode: 36:17

Yeah, no, i mean. No, it makes sense. I guess. A question I have would be like where do you think I guess these fantasies come from, cause I mean I know they’re different for every person depending on their lived experiences. But in the sense of you mentioned the fantasy as being or desires, being a way to let down the walls of the ego, where do you think the fantasies come from, or what do you think the purpose of the fantasy is? Is it just to let down the walls of the ego? or, in your experience, like, what’s been that? What does that look like?

Artemisia de Vine: 36:51

Yeah, fantastic. So the most common and commonly accepted models for why we have sexual fantasies at the moment come from therapists, who look at everything through therapist lenses and they are set up as the authorities on this topic. Then they have university and systems backing them up, but they have lots of blind spots because they’re looking at it through well unfinished childhood and adolescent business that is getting in the way and needs fixing. That’s and with all of the trauma discourse that is going on around at the moment, where trauma is the buzzword, i guess, and it’s really important, i’m grateful, i’m so grateful for this topic being addressed. It’s super important. But it seems like everyone’s looking at their sexual fantasies through this new lens of trauma and they go oh, this must be because I had this childhood experience and I need to address it, or this thing happened. What I noticed is that it’s not from well. Absolutely. Our egos can be affected and shaped by trauma and therefore that can come out in our sexual fantasies. People without any trauma histories have equally amount of kinky, perverted fantasies, as though it’s happened. And there’s been a few studies now that show this that the amount of sexual abuse is about equal amongst people who identify as people who prefer classical stars of sex to preferred kinky stars of sex. So it’s not actually the trauma that’s creating this pattern. These patterns of wanting to submit, these patterns of wanting to do, to dominate, to, are actually or going to be there anyway as well. So, not discounting the trauma that can come up, if that’s something that’s happening for you, then for sure that’s. I don’t discount it, it’s real. But even when what I’m saying is even when there has been no, even if you had the perfect childhood and nothing ever went wrong just because of the nature of what an ego is, our sexual fantasies have to overcome it And they’re going to come up with themes of power. They’re going to come up with themes of hmm, you think you’re better than me? I’ll put you on your knees. They’re going to come up with egoic themes, right, yeah, yeah. And and it’s so that we can surrender, because ultimately that’s what it is It’s. And as a professional dominatrix I so often said you know what my role actually is? My role is actually to become my submissive’s ego for them and act it out so that they don’t have to have one and they can let go into the blissful surrender of just being and experiencing, and dropping into those deeper states of being which it can be so much more than an orgasm. So, and from from that place, an orgasm is just a nice bonus, yeah.

Ellie Goode: 40:32

And so, so sorry. You mentioned you taking on the ego of like as the dominant. Do you mean, when you’re in the dominant role and you’re working with someone in the submissive role, you would take on like their ego, or how is that? how would that work?

Artemisia de Vine: 40:49

Think about the archetype of the dominatrix. Doesn’t she think she’s the best thing ever? Doesn’t she just feel entitled to have her own way, isn’t she just? of course you’ll be on your knees worshiping me, you slave. Of course everything’s going. She’s a walking ego, yeah she’s a walking ego right, but she’s. I did that So I became their ego, for them symbolically and their subconscious, and not only in the way of acting all haughty and as though I’m self-important, but also in protecting them and keeping them safe while they were vulnerable. I became their wall around them, for them, so I was both things at the same time And if they can have a real, felt sense of that, they’re going to let go deeply because someone’s holding it for them, right? So this is a part of their subconscious, knows and responds to it. You’ve got it or you haven’t. And that’s why I had to listen to their fantasies, because if I had to do it just my own way, without listening to their fantasies, i would not be the right antidote for them, for their resistance. Because that’s the other part of my theory is that it’s not only just the exact story that ego needs to hear to let go, but it includes sexual fantasies, include ego’s fear, Whatever ego fears about being vulnerable, natural resistance to being vulnerable. It’s going to include it symbolically somehow in the fantasy and it’s going to include the antidote, right? So you talked earlier about how lots of women have rape fantasies and they don’t want to live them out in reality, this is a perfect example. If you just lived it out literally, it would just be poison, no antidote, and there would be a harmful end result. If you follow the power dynamics, the attitude, the body language, the specific narrative that is revealed in the erotic fantasy, it has its own inbuilt antidote. So you have to include the fear in order to transform it, because if you don’t include it, it doesn’t transform. So it has to be included in some form and the antidote has to be there, and that’s when the transformation happens. And the end result for both of you is the exact opposite to what would happen if it happened in real life. Now you feel really sane, now you feel really safe, now you feel actually really powerful and you got your needs met in exactly the way that you really wanted them to be met. So it’s it flips everything and transforms everything. There’s another. Does that? you’re nodding about that? tell me where you’re at.

Ellie Goode: 43:55

No, no, no, that’s great.

I guess one question I had was so say, someone comes in and says sort of they want something, but maybe that’s what they think they want. But yeah, how do you, i guess, figure out, i guess sort of what’s underneath the fantasy or how, what that person really needs versus what they’re saying? I want this fantasy, for instance, if that makes sense.

Artemisia de Vine: 44:22

I wish you could give me an example, then I could bounce off that.

Ellie Goode: 44:27

Yes, I have a think of an example. So let’s just go with, say, the rape fantasy, because we’ve been talking about that one. Like, say, i came in and I said I really have this rape fantasy. I don’t really know what to do about it, i don’t want to live it out. How, like, how could you read into that, i guess in it, in a person of what sort of at the heart of that fantasy, and how can they experience that, that freedom, yeah, okay, so each person who has that fantasy there is no one one size fits all, so you always have to listen very carefully to The individual you’re talking about.

Artemisia de Vine: 45:07

Just because your, your ex, wanted that same, same sounding fantasy, doesn’t mean that they have the same Aerotic map in time. You have to listen to what exactly their fantasy is. Then you, i would ask things like okay, so in this fantasy? first of all, i’d ask what actually happens like in in the in the fantasy, and then People will use different language in the way they describe it and I will tease out and notice okay, so so This fantasy is because they They can’t help themselves. You’re so attractive That they have lost control of Their own inhibitions because you’re just that hot right in fantasy. In real life That would be a terrible thing and a bullshit excuse. Don’t use that this. Sexual fantasies are brilliant for navigating internal realms. Terrible, terrible guides for external realms in every day enacting.

Ellie Goode: 46:17

Really clear about that.

Artemisia de Vine: 46:20

Yeah, okay, but I In in the fantasy realm remember how everything it’s bizarre a world. Everything flips. It has a different Consequence than it does in the outside world. So it is. Let’s just imagine this person is. It’s okay. Actually, what they needed was a Combination of Somebody, of a reassurance that they’re, they’re, actually attractive, and the evidence was that this other person has lost control in. Remember self. Ego’s concerns are self-worth, self-identity and status, but you can’t, and also It might be really a much more about how They’re keeping their status. This person who’s having the rape fantasy? because they might. They might have good girl artists, like I did and So many of us do, because even if you had incredible parents, you know, attitudes of society seep in and we’ve got a terrifying fear, really primal fear, of not being accepted in the tribe. As far as ego is concerned, if you are not accepted in the tribe, you will die. It gets very vigilant about defending your status in society. That’s why it gets so, you know Huffy, every time he thinks that you’ve Lost face in some slight way. It’s was really linked to this Right. So how are we going to overcome this resistance and access this sexual pleasure that you’re not supposed to have? You’re not supposed to have this as a woman. You’re a good girl. You’re supposed to be the one who’s who’s desired, and Not the one who does those dirty things that accesses this primal part of yourself like an animal right. So Okay, there’s this mechanism right here. That’s going okay. It’s not your fault, Someone else did it for you. You can keep your status as a good girl. And also magically get all of your needs touched, and get touched in exactly the way that actually gives you pleasure. You get to have all of the sex acts that you’re really craving for. That You can’t let yourself actively pursue in order to keep this, this status, in place, right and And at the same time, you’re really validated as somebody who’s wanted, not Rejected, because, look, they want you so badly, they can’t resist you and, to the up to the unconscious, subconscious logic, that’s proof that you’re not rejected from society. You’re part of it. You’re, you’re in, and now you can access this place inside of yourself. You’ve dissolved into it, does that?

Ellie Goode: 49:14

make sense. Yeah, no, that’s great. Yeah, yeah, that’s amazing, yeah, that, yeah, it makes a lot of sense for sure.

Artemisia de Vine: 49:21

Right, and then people go into okay, well, if she just did her therapy long enough, she would not need that, she could just go into really embodied presence, right, this is the next resistance that comes along. But I find that most people don’t get rid of these fantasies. They’re not something that disappear. Even if you do genuinely feel your worth and don’t feel any shame anymore, the wiring is still there and It’s a brilliant story you can play with because it’s fun and deeply powerful and triggers everything to get to that state really effectively, really quickly. So if you’re consensually playing with your, your sexual partner, and you know, oh, what if we did this, what we did that and we’re sharing all, i really like it when you do this, and then then creating this for yourself and Going into this, going into where you can go with this. So I Really want to move away from that whole way of thinking of if, if I just did the work, i wouldn’t be turned on by this and sexual fantasies become irrelevant and Just a distraction. I think come back full circle. They’re treasure, their treasure maps. They lead you somewhere very effectively. They’re sent to you by your own mind. No one knows your, your ego resistances as well as your mind does, and the exact Ways of getting around those resistances so that you can get to those places. So it would be such a shame to miss out on this beautiful tool that we could play with so consensually.

Ellie Goode: 51:01

Yeah, yeah, you’ve got me curious now, but I really liked what you said about You know it being a way to sort of tap into your primal nature, because I think you know, like you mentioned as well, it’s almost like this, this evolutionary need in all of us, you know, in our nervous system and our physical body you know, to tap into. I guess that that primal energy in, in, in and the fantasy it sounds like, is a way to do that, like you’re saying, awaited, safely, consensually, unlock that primal energy in our, in our bodies, which is which is really cool, yeah.

Artemisia de Vine: 51:40

Yeah, well, when you were talking about rage and forming a relationship with rage and how valuable that is, this is that, yeah as well, like desire is a really powerful force, just like rage, something that we’re initially afraid of, but once you’re, you form it into an allyship with it. It is such a powerful ally, it is incredibly powerful.

Ellie Goode: 52:06

Yeah yeah that’s super cool and I guess maybe a sign question That just popped up would be For, say, someone who might be listening and thinking like I’m not in touch with my Fantasies or desires. I, i, i don’t really know where to begin or how to figure out what a fantasy is that I’d be interested in. Do you, do you have sort of, i guess, some ideas, that of things people can try to really connect with The fantasy or to sort of explore, or is it something that they just sort of look at what they’re curious about? or yeah, hmm, Lots of.

Artemisia de Vine: 52:43

I think pretty much everyone has sexual fantasies, but not everyone’s aware that they do. It’s just like dreams Everybody has dreams but not everybody’s aware that they do, and you can Become aware of your fantasies and part of that is going to be working. Have it broadening your definition of what a fantasy is. So if you’re thinking of it, it has to be a fully fledged story that I live from beginning to end in my mind’s eye While I’m masturbating. You’re going to miss all of the times when, actually, you briefly drew on fantasy to become turned on, when you leaned into your lover’s hug and You were fully present with the sensations that were there. But your mind also flashed to a memory of when they were younger and fitter and they held you in a different way and Suddenly your body’s around That memory that was there, you know. Or even if you have People who’ve looked up, they’ve got favorite erotic as genres that they like to read or Pawn searches that they like to refer to, that’s going to reveal the same sort of underlying patterns and and people who Think, okay, i’m just, i’m only ever fully present in my body. Now They still have, they still have to tap into this exact same pattern and I lived way on some level and they’re always trying to work out How. And if you look closely, they go okay, i’ll ask them about a peak experience. I say, okay, you can’t remember any fantasies, let’s think about a peak experience. And they will talk to me about the end result first, before they And so that they don’t notice it, they’ll go. Oh, we were just so in flow, we were so connected. Our hearts are expanded. It felt like we were. You know, we were just one. I didn’t know why I ended and they began. It was just the most wonderful sex ever. And Like they’re just remembering the end results. So then we’re going to work backwards. We’re gonna say, okay, what were the circumstances that led to this moment? What was there and not just the sitting there breathing together and eye gazing, what actually created the situation where you wanted to get into that state together? What was happening? What was in your relationship? What was happening, you know, and and you might find out that, because I was at a party and I could feel their attention on me and their eyes from across the room, and you know, my heart started racing as they worked up the courage to approach me and, and you know, then we snuck a kiss in the hallway or in the bathroom or What was okay. So in there in that ingredient was there, was Wanting, you felt being wanted, you felt being desired, you felt the right level of risk safety ratio. Attention there. You know this because you need For optimum sexual experience, you really need to be able to access Not just pure safety. Pure safety, actually you get you board. That can be the end result. But you need to first engage somehow symbolically risk To enliven your nervous system at the same time. But it has to be the right level of risk safety, that sweet spot in there. So we take a closer look at how that’s working and what other circumstances around were basically just Triggering off the same narrative that a sexual fantasy would. And then, sooner or later, you find that that that actually is sexual fantasy. It’s the same as their sexual fantasies and it just happened to be triggered in a real-life circumstance.

Ellie Goode: 56:27

That makes sense. Yeah, so it’s like a fantasy could almost just be, like I think you said, a memory, or, yeah, like it makes me wonder. Yeah, like I think typically, like I would have thought of as a fantasy, of being this really out there, adventurous kind of experience, you know, or Way out there. But I mean, like you’re mentioning, it could be just be a really simple Thing of wanting something to happen with a person, like a kiss in the hallway, for instance. It doesn’t have to be this really big, full blown, huge things and that’s really cool Yeah.

Artemisia de Vine: 57:04

Yeah, even even if you don’t want to go into the past to draw on, you’d want to go into the future as In, i’m gonna have a really hot date this Friday night and I’m now really excited thinking about what might happen. I’m excited by this part of it and that part of it and You know I can feel myself, you know, getting ignited just anticipating it. But even sometimes people have sexual fantasies just about body types and body and sex acts, just flushes in their mind’s eye Of certain things. But even that, once you take a closer look at it, it has an entire narrative within it. That body type is not just that body type. It represents something and it triggers something in you. So, and and that’s one of the genius things about this, this way of Approaching sexual fantasies is you realize you separate the essence from behind the fantasy, from the fantasy self. Like I said before, you don’t need to literally have That body type in order to trigger that same mechanism, once you understand what it is that was being triggered. I was never a, i was never a Conventionally attractive person and, you know, as a very successful sex worker, because I was triggering the thing behind their desires. Hey, so You know it can be done.

Ellie Goode: 58:28

That’s cool, that’s so interesting, and so so I guess you sort of mentioned the power and the different Levels that sexual fantasies can take you. so maybe, if we can expand on that, like, where sort of what are the sort of states That you can go when you really go into these fantasies and unlock them?

Artemisia de Vine: 58:53

Mm-hmm. Okay, so the very first level is orgasm, as we said before. So you know your little tiny ego. Death is, is, is is already achieved just by living out your fantasy. And you can do that just by fantasizing in your head. You don’t have to actually bring it out out of your head and you can, if you want to now bring it to a level where you can connect and play and use your fantasy as a Game to interact with your partner. You’re including your partner in it. Now You bring it out of your head and into your bed, then You’re living the story. Now, right, you’re not just Watching the movie on the screen, you’re actually an actor on the stage. Now, right, and this is, this is now. You’re up to your level of feeling, talking about being embodied. You’re now, you’re gonna feel even more. Now You also your subconscious doesn’t know the difference between In acting something and something really happening. So if it feels as though That ego Fear has been appeased through the play, it just releases that the Switch and the ego turns off and you now got access to the next part. So now you can connect with your partner. It’s not just in your head now That which was keeping you separate from them, and it was not. It’s in your body and it in the play, and it’s now connecting with somebody And this can then move into this wonderful flow state, which is another level of of letting go of ego and moving into just a slightly deeper erotic state of consciousness. So imagine you know flow state. What does that mean? Well, just imagine You know a dog in the park running like for the pure joy of it, without any thought, just absolutely delighting, being in a body and being alive. That that’s not analyzing anything, it’s not worried about whether it’s being a good boy or not, it’s just running. So we’ve entered into this next level and flow state can also be highly concentrated, so you can be really present and also completely let go and surrender at the same time. That’s one of the wonderful paradoxes of flow state. It’s this, it’s beautiful, but that’s just the first layer of where you can go. Then, if you want to get people who are into BDSM and kinky play often talk about going into subspace And subspace Emission, space, space, and people also got talk about going into top space the person who’s dominating or leading or doing doing can also go into this intense flow state of Pure experiencing. You know, in play And that can feel Lots of, there’s lots of different states under the umbrella of subspace. Some people are talking about just getting an endorphin high, right And so, and that’s also really yummy as well. But some of them are really deep where you just feel like, whoa, i’m now one with the universe. Whoa, what is this? What is this? This is beautiful cartoon that was been made by ES jewel Yes, that’s the cartoonist and It is of a Dominatrix Standing above a collared slave. He’s on his hands and knees and she’s she’s got the collar and she’s yanking his head up and making him look at the night sky Of all of the styles of eternity and she’s like see how small and insignificant you are. This dominates its existing existential dominatrix. This is how small and insignificant you are. And and now, as a result, you’re so small, your ego dissipates. That’s the opposite way of blowing your ego up. The other way is making it really small and then it dissipates and it disappears, and then like they’re free of it and they’re like, wow, now I’ve got this feeling of awe and wonder. So this is the kind of feeling that comes with the next layer of these erotic states of consciousness is awe and wonder. And and then you start having that those Not existential crisis, but existential glee Wow, that’s cool. Yeah, wow, this is amazing and from there, yeah, there, people have all sorts of experiences once that part of them is open from there. So I think that’s a deeply valuable You know, that’s where our creativity lives, our life force, sex. Sex is our creative life force. You can you experience yourself, and and and each other On a in a whole different way from that place, when your egos are out of the way. It’s one of the most precious life experiences you can have to share this state with another. When both of your egos are out of the way, it is just Beautiful, and sexual fantasies are the exact map to that, and even the smutty things Of putting a gag in their mouth and a butt plug up in the collar, on his neck, and then saying you’re so little, you’re so little, you’re nothing, and now you’re free. Now you’re free, now there’s eternity. That’s cool, but how do you even begin this? Well, okay, all right, all right. So yeah, that actually took some doing to work out how on earth Okay, i’m having these experiences in the divinery, sitting people down on my red velvet couch And then, and then they go away and they have no idea how to get back there again, because I did all the work, i was the one who could see what was happening in the, in the narrative of their fantasy, and I knew how to bring it to life in a consensual game that that is going to benefit both of us. Now I’m teaching people how to do it for themselves and for each other, and I developed a whole framework instead of tools, which you know, because it was the method that I use in the diviner. We just simply call it the divinery method. So, um, but we begin. The foundation of all of it starts from Forming a, rewiring your relationship to desire itself, actively forming a relationship with this part That sends you those fantasies in the first place and embodied level, feel the sensations interact with an intentionally level of relationship from there and then Then we build into Then. Then, once you’ve got that in place, you know how to be present, you know how to, how to not project your fantasies. Then we can come back to okay, what are your fantasies. How can we bring this same clever mechanism to life, in play in real life? play in and have that effect? And one of the first things that people can do to feel into that is Start expanding that moment of satiation. All right, desire is wanting, desire is I want, and you don’t want what you already have. It’s an urge of traits, a magnetic force pulling you to something that you don’t currently have, an emotion that you need for fulfilling. Sometimes we think it’s a car We need to buy, but you know it’s. It’s really what you’d feel if you. What state would you get to access that you don’t currently have, if you’d fulfilled that fantasy? right, this is where we start. And then you imagine what that wanting feels like now. Imagine the satiation of getting that thing behind the symbol. Like now you have the feeling of freedom and power that you didn’t have before by imagining buying that car. Now you you’ve And you feel wanted because how sexy are you with that car. You’ve got all the Those needs are now met now, what can you access inside of yourself that you didn’t before? now? you can feel the satiation of this need being met, of the transformation being met by, by symbolically living out that story. Okay, and most people, when they have that satiation, they just feel it for a moment. They could, they feel it, you know Whoa, i thrill it, and a and a lighting up and and even their heart can expand for a moment And it can feel like. But then it stops and they and they’re distracted by something else, often because they They didn’t actually satiate the real need behind the, the wanting. They actually went and bought the car instead of getting the feeling but anyway, yeah, um, if the first thing you can start to do is just focus on that moment of satiation, what does satiation feel like in your body? You know your guards are down temporarily, it’s right. Then your guards are down, you feel more alive, you feel more expanded, you can feel more of yourself, you can feel even a euphoria rushing through your body and tingles, and It can. Your self doubt has gone even in that moment, right? Ah, what does that feel like? Let’s, let’s just sink into that element and expand it, instead of just rushing past it And thinking I need to go quickly get another hit in order to get it again. I’ve got it right now. What happens if I sit in it and expand it and breathe it? Ah, this is the first step of teaching myself how to follow desire, to get to these states of consciousness It’s guiding me to This is learning how to to be, have a more conscious interaction with it here. So that’s and you can. Uh, um, i’ve got a little exercise you can go and do on On um my website if you want to just try it for yourself and see if it’s for you That you can access there. But, yeah, that’s, that’s how we begin this process, if you want to, if you want to explore this in your life.

Ellie Goode: 1:09:33

Yeah, amazing. It seems like it’s almost, i guess, an aligning of both The mind and the body, because it’s like the the mind is what helps to create the desire, but then it’s dropping into the feeling as well. In the body It’s, would you say, that sort of how it works, like it’s a, like you need both, not not just one and not just the other.

Artemisia de Vine: 1:09:55

Yeah, it’s bringing all the whole of us in. If we want to be, if we want to To be um accepted, we need to accept the whole of ourselves. If we want to Feel the full potential of our erotic cells, we need to include the whole of ourselves, not cut one off for the other. So It’s, it’s the, it’s the next step after you’ve learned how to be embodied and present.

Ellie Goode: 1:10:22

Yeah, that’s cool, sounds very interesting. Um, yeah, so if people want to learn more about what you do, um, and you know, check out some of your work, where can they? where can they find out more?

Artemisia de Vine: 1:10:38

Okay, my website is the best place to go, uh, artemisiadevine.com. And it’s best to join my mailing list rather than following me on social media, because anything to do with sex, especially sex work, routinely gets kicked off everything. So I don’t invest a lot In trying to build my social media because I just know it’s a matter of time before I lose it. So follow my actual newsletter if you’d like to keep getting blogs and insights and into how the erotic psyche works. I’m pretty generous, i I like to share a lot. I’m also writing a book, uh, called the value of sexual fantasies, and I’m currently just launched a um, a Kickstarter to, because I’m going to self publish so I can keep full control over my sex work narrative Rather than have somebody sank to, you know censor it so, um, but that costs a lot more money than you realize to pay for editors and audiobooks and pr and all sorts of things. So I’m launched a kickstart. If you’d like to get to Support that and see this work get out into the world, that would be really great. But otherwise, go straight to the, the website, and try that exercise that I mentioned before and just try it for yourself. And if you’re interested, then um, there’s, you can start learning the desire, compass and then, and then start Possibly getting some private coaching or or access the online course or something from there. So there’s lots of ways for you to be able to begin this and to have these tools for yourself.

Ellie Goode: 1:12:13

Wonderful, wonderful. I’ll be sure to put other links in there in the show notes for anyone listening. And Thank you so much I’d am Asia for coming on and and sharing all your knowledge and wisdom. It’s been an incredible chat, so much appreciated, yeah, fun. Thank you so much for having me and that is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening and remember before you go, please smash the five star reading or review button if you haven’t already, and I will catch you all next time.