Chase Moore — Transforming Lives Through Jiu-Jitsu and Plant Medicine: San Pedro Cactus Ceremonies, Discovering Who You Really Are, Self-Defence and More – #24

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by Ellie Goode

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Chase Moore - San Pedro Cactus Ceremonies

Have you ever felt like your life was spiralling out of control?

Have you ever felt lost?



Wondering what the point of everything of everything is?

You’re not alone.

We all go through stages like that in life – it’s part of being human.

Chase Moore is a Huachumero (aka a San Pedro cactus facilitator) and black-belt Jiu-Jitsu teacher living in Peru.

From self-defence techniques to the powerful world of plant medicine, we dived deep into how Jiu-Jitsu and San Pedro cactus have transformed Chase’s life.

And how they can help you take control of yours.

You’ll hear about Chase’s journey from self-destructive habits to a healthier lifestyle.

He explains how the lessons contained within Jiu Jitsu can help you defend yourself and stay calm when life is going crazy.

But the transformation doesn’t stop there…

We ventured into the world of plant medicine and psychedelics, particularly the San Pedro cactus.

We talked about how these natural alternatives can bring healing and personal growth in huge, powerful ways.

How these plants help you find yourself and let go of old identities that keep you stuck.

Learn how to overcome fear in dangerous situations.

Learn about the transformational potential of plant medicine.

Learn how to take back control of your own life.

This episode is packed full of valuable insights for personal growth, healing, and empowerment. 

So join us as we explore the incredible journey of Chase Moore and upgrade your life today…

*Without* having to wear pristine white clothes … do yoga five days a week … bust out your mala beads … or be super “spiritual” 🔥

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In this episode, you’ll learn…

  • How to work with plant medicine and what exactly happens in a San Pedro cactus ceremony 🌵
  • How to defend yourself in dangerous situations, and de-escalate yourself and others from raging anger and fear 😰
  • Chase’s crazy near-death experience in Colombia, almost getting stabbed, and how he used Jiu Jitsu to defend himself and save his life 🥋
  • How to destroy old self-destructive patterns that you deeply identify with 🪓
  • The real meaning of “self-love”, and how to accept and embrace the darkest, trashiest parts of yourself ❤️

Time Stamps:

  • 5:45 – Jiu-Jitsu for Personal Growth
  • 16:28 – Self-Defence, Overcoming Fear, and Safety
  • 25:55 – San Pedro’s De-escalation Benefits
  • 36:06 – The Power of Plant Medicine
  • 42:02 – Healing Trauma and Choosing Change
  • 57:21 – Authenticity, Community, and Overcoming Fear
  • 1:02:39 – Exploring Personal Growth Through Plant Medicine
  • 1:11:18 – Plant Medicine and Community Fulfilment
  • 1:23:26 – San Pedro Cactus Ceremonies and Self-Acceptance

Connect with Chase Moore:

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Ellie Goode Host of the Provocative “Sex, Money & Rage Podcast, Nervous System Junkie, and Plant Psychonaut 🌿

I created Sex, Money & Rage to talk about everything that’s taboo. BDSM. Plant medicine. Healthy Rage. Kink. Emotions. Boundaries. Money issues. Less thinking, more feeling. How to get into your body and silence your overactive mind.

Sex, Money & Rage provides straight-up, powerful nervous system tools to help you dominate life’s toughest moments.

All podcast episodes are located here.

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Ellie Goode: Welcome to the Sex Money and Rage podcast. 
 Chase Moore: True self-love to me is loving like the trash aspects, the dirtiest parts, and with that it’s hard because you know myself included I want it gone. I don’t want it to be in my psyche, but the more I push it away and the more I push these old patterns that aren’t serving me away, the more they cling on. 
 Ellie Goode: Hello Ragers, and welcome back to Sex Money and Rage. I’m your host, Ellie, and today we are talking about something totally different for once – psychedelics. I’m just kidding. I feel like almost every episode these days is about psychedelics and plant medicine. But you know what? I love it and you guys seem to love it too, so we’re just going to roll with it. 
 Ellie Goode: Today I interviewed a Huachumero called Chase. Chase is a guy we drink with here in the Sacred Valley in Peru and Chase is a freaking rock star. He, yeah, it’s just. this episode was next level epic. I feel like every episode is great, but yeah, just yeah, I’m excited for you guys to listen and see how you respond. If you’ve been listening, please hit the subscribe or follow button and make sure notifications are ticked. So then every Sunday when a new episode goes out, it pops up on your phone and says hello, hello, listen to me, listen to me. And then you get to listen to the episode, because I know no one uses calendar reminders for podcasts. So hit the subscribe or follow button. make sure notifications are ticked. It really helps me out and shows all the streaming platforms that this is a cool podcast. So yeah, thanks everyone. 
 Ellie Goode: In this episode we talked about jujitsu and self-defence and the importance of protecting yourself and feeling safe, and how Chase had to use his jujitsu skills in a real life mugging situation in Colombia Pretty hectic. We talked a lot about mind stuff all the different stories we all have in our minds and how to work with them, and basically the incredible power of plant medicine, and the San Pedro cactus in particular. So I’m not recommending you try plant medicine or psychedelics. They are a whole other beast. Please, please, please, consult with your doctor and do your own research before diving in. There’s risks involved, they can interact with certain medications and it’s illegal in most Western countries. So now that I’ve got my lovely disclaimer out of the way, let’s jump in and enjoy this incredible episode with Chase Moore. I’m here today with Chase. Chase Moore? Yeah, Chase Moore Nice. 
 Ellie Goode: So yeah, Chase, tell us a bit about yourself and what you do. 
 Chase Moore: So I’m a Huachumero, live down in Peru, 42 years old, happily married, most of the time with a beautiful two year old daughter, and also teach jiu-jitsu on the side because I love it. Yeah, and that’s pretty much it. Yeah, fills up my time quite nicely. 
 Ellie Goode: Nice, nice. And so how did you get into jiu-jitsu? 
 Chase Moore: When I was 25, I had some pretty terrible habits, pretty self-destructive, And I got on a scale at a party one night and I almost weighed 200 pounds. I weighed 196 pounds. Wow, And I thought something has to give. I was like I’m too young to be this fat, So especially for my frame. Wow. 
 Chase Moore: So I just quit a hobby of mine and I needed something to kind of engage me and never been interested in fighting or anything like that. But a friend of mine was like, hey, we should try this out, man, it’s something to do where I can get in shape. And yeah, we just went for a class and I was hooked, absolutely hooked, and then that’s really, you know, still this day in my what, what you might work, probably like the milestone in my life of like changing everything, the way I see life, the way I interact with life, from a much healthier place. Yeah, yeah, so I’ve been doing jiu-jitsu for 16, almost 17 years now And to me it’s like any medicine work, it’s a practice and it’s taught me more and introduced me to more people in alignment with living halfway healthy And just great people. That kind of steered the trajectory of my life And hopefully I can pass that on in some way. Fascinating stuff, as long as you don’t get hurt. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And did you, I guess, first start learning in the US? 
 Chase Moore: Yeah Yeah, Tennessee. At the Chattanooga Jiu-Jitsu Academy, my instructor his name is Mickey Swafford and probably now looking back on it, probably the first shaman that I’ve ever worked with, or, you know, the first real influence outside of my family that I worked with, who showed me a different way of living And showed me that it was possible to create an environment around you that can help you grow and develop, That you’re not a victim necessarily to all the external influences of life, and then you’re not just at the whim and mercy of traffic that day, or you know your relationships, that you can actually be invested in it and start to control yourself and control your environment. So to this day I’m still very thankful to him for you know kind of the lessons that he’s taught me, not only just how to do an arm lock or choke somebody out, but just being a great example of a human that I can look up to and learn from inside and outside of the academy. So yeah, fascinating place and just fantastic people. 
 Ellie Goode: That’s cool And so I guess like doing Jiu-Jitsu because I know John’s mentioned it it’s like what you learn and learning to stay calm and learning to be strategic, i guess, with your opponent. Then you know translates to real life, where you know kind of like you were saying, when things are going crazy. It’s like bringing those kind of techniques or tools into life. 
 Chase Moore: Absolutely. 
 Chase Moore: Yeah yeah, yeah, it’s. It’s not what you go into Jiu-Jitsu for, but it’s really what you come out with Dealing with anger, emotional issues, all of these things, and bringing them into light kinaesthetically, so giving you a methodology of interacting with your emotions in a healthy way And bringing balance between your body and your mind. And I think that’s missing a lot in Western societies. A lot of people don’t necessarily have balance in their life. So for me, if I feel as if I’m, i can start to feel anger in me or, you know, explosive emotions. If I take time and look back, it’s always been times where I’ve been off the mat like, oh, i haven’t trained in a week or two weeks, so I’ve never been able to bring balance back. So it’s all building up somewhere. Yeah. 
 Chase Moore: So having that as a tool to bring you know, not only balance and strategy and breathing and calmness back into your life, because Jiu-Jitsu kind of forces you to do it or you’ll fail. You know, and in life, in daily life, we’re not usually pushed to that limit. So a lot of times we won’t even recognize how important it is for us to use those tools Right. They’ll just kind of like our problems and issues will kind of build up subconsciously And then for some reason we’ll feel terrible or you know, we’ll be acting with bad behaviours that aren’t necessarily helpful for us. And if we don’t recognize it, then we’ll just continue with those patterns And Jiu-Jitsu is a way of pointing all of those out. 
 Chase Moore: So I know if I’m not in shape, like somebody’s going to come after me, it’s very apparent. You know, if I’m angry and I go into rolling with a place of anger from whatever’s happened outside of that, i can feel it immediately when I get on the mat And my heart rate will elevate, my breathing will be off, all of these things, and it makes you know all of those aspects much more difficult to actually then succeed in Jiu-Jitsu, and that being a microcosm of daily life, you know. So, seeing that right in front of your face, you can start to apply those skills outside to your daily life and see more success for yourself, whatever that looks like in daily life. 
 Ellie Goode: That’s cool, that’s really cool, yeah. And so I guess when you sort of talk about you know coming in and feeling rage or anger and you know coming into the mat, it’s sort of like, how do you release that, i guess in a healthy way, where it’s you know you’re not losing control and you know attacking your opponent but being smart or channeLling it, I guess in a healthy way. 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, well, you know that’s the whole practice of Jiu-Jitsu. If I fly off the rails, i put myself out of position and then I get beaten. You know, if I’m scared and I go in and there’s like some big tough guy who wants to beat me up and I go in it with fear, i can’t, just by the nature of the practice I can’t allow myself to feed into that, or I’ll you know, I’ve fought through years of panic attacks with Jiu-Jitsu where I felt trapped or helpless and it would bring about panic attacks. So that’s like letting go of that kind of control or being able to, you know, manipulate my breath in certain ways. Where that doesn’t happen. And I think a lot of people in Jiu-Jitsu they either quit through that or they’ll, you know, they learn how to deal with it. 
 Chase Moore: And so, coming back to my breath and, just like you know, every aspect of life, i should probably focus on what I can control, which a lot of times for me, at 145, 150 pounds and I’m rolling with somebody who’s 50 pounds heavier than me there’s not as much that I can control as a big guy can control with me. 
 Chase Moore: So I have to focus on what I can control Breath. You know my mindset, all of these things being comfortable, you know, is kind of a state of mind that translates everywhere through life, and this is a tool that allows us to start to be comfortable with ourselves. And if I’m comfortable in very uncomfortable situations, man, what in daily life can really push me over the edge? If I’ve had a guy that is 50 pounds heavier than me smashing me all day, you know so great tools, I can’t let my fear or my rage overtake me because then I’m at the will of that or the other person you know so kind of using jujitsu as a tool to stay calm, stay present and all those things. For me it’s been one of my biggest teachers, you know. Yeah, so for whatever that’s worth. 
 Ellie Goode: Super cool. I’m like I gotta get into it. Yeah, it’s. I can imagine, like you know, being in a I guess what was the term, not wrestling, but like in a rolling, rolling with, i guess, an opponent and being choked out or being put in this situation where it’s a safe container because you know it’s. It’s not like you’re in a street fight necessarily. 
 Chase Moore: Right. 
 Ellie Goode: But to have someone choking you or to have someone, you know, i guess, pushing it to your body in a certain way where, like you said, you might freak out or you might, you know, get triggered in these different ways, and to learn to stay calm because, you know, the more calm and relaxed you are, the more you can think clearly and go okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna do this and get myself out of this, like, do you find that, you know, like, what’s the balance, I guess, between being a really strong person and being a really good person in terms of jujitsu? 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, for strong people it’s harder, you know traditionally to be good at Jiu Jitsu because they rely on their strength right, so they can. They can do things where they don’t need Jiu Jitsu Right. So jujitsu is developed for smaller people to have a chance against big people. So when we apply that methodology of course being strong, if you’re applying the methodology of jujitsu the mindset, the technicality of it there’s all kinds of wrestling and tough guys beating each other up all the time. But if you start to really apply the mindset of why you’re doing jujitsu and you’re big and strong, you’re going to be on top of the world, you know, at least in that aspect of your life. So For me, being a smaller guy, it was almost necessary that I had to use jiu-jitsu. I didn’t have the option of being strong and beating people up just because I was strong, right. So very cool. I think it’s a martial art for people like you and me to bring in those aspects of life that we’re talking about the controlling, the calm, all the benefits of being secure in ourselves. 
 Chase Moore: A lot of people walk throughout their life with these stories in their head, guys especially who’ve never fought once in their life. They’ve never been hit hard in the face. They’ve never wrestled, they’ve never done anything and they’re like well, i can always beat somebody up. Man, I get mad enough. You should see me. I really freak out. I’m like, yeah, okay, how do you know? that’s a story in your head And usually with those stories there’s a lot of fear. What would I do in that situation? Well, yeah, i freak out, man, I’ll rage out on these people or whatever, beat them up so bad, just because I got a lot of anger inside of me or whatever it is. But living off of those stories is a terrible way to go through life. It’s almost a sort of mental masturbation that’s unhealthy. 
 Chase Moore: I’d be like, well, if somebody had handed me a $2 billion company and told me to run it, i’m like, man, i could do that. Well, it’s never happened and it’s not going to, because I would not be able to handle it. But I’m a little bit self aware with those things. I’d run it right into the ground. But there’s an old story of guys especially when they say stuff like that about fighting or self-defence situations you have a guitar in your corner. If I just hand this guitar to some random person and be like play me some Jimi Hendrix, they’d be like well, i can’t play guitar, I’m like well, what makes you think you can fight? What makes you think these things Apply that to any skill set? So I’m self aware enough to know that I can’t do things that I don’t apply myself to learn. So, that being said, what’s a scary self-defence situation for you? 
 Ellie Goode: For me, yeah, in terms of a physical situation. 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, physical. 
 Ellie Goode: I guess the first thing that comes to mind would be sexual harassment or being followed in an alleyway, especially as a female. 
 Ellie Goode: It was interesting with an ex-partner I actually we did a role play where he attempted to attack me like in a container Wasn’t actually trying to attack me, but because I wanted to see how hard it was to push a man off me and I couldn’t do it And he didn’t work out. He didn’t do any martial arts, he was a skinny dude and I couldn’t push him off me And that made me go like, oh shit, I need to be smart. And so I did end up researching what are some smart ways I can get out of a situation like that. If I ever ended up in a situation like that Without having to be physical, could I run away? Could I carry some sort of weapon in my purse Or not a weapon, but like because in Australia you’re not allowed to carry weapons but could I carry a silver pen? Or could I use humour or could I I don’t know do something kind of unexpected? 
 Ellie Goode: But I think, as a woman, it is something that I think about when I catch the bus late at night, but from Cusco or different things is that am I being followed? It was actually interesting when I went to Lima a month ago. I was followed by an older dude in Lima because I was on my own and just learning how can I get out of this situation, kind of like you’re saying with the strategy and staying calm enough to get out or be smart about how can I lose this guy and not yeah, but it is something that I think as women especially like yeah, you have to think about am I being followed or how am I gonna get out of this? 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, Very cool. So I would say you researched it so you had kind of a plan, yeah, and like everything. If we don’t have a plan, then we just end up not doing anything. Or if we pretend that violence and bad things don’t happen in the world, then we’re ripe for the picking from bad people or people doing bad things. And I know in spirituality and all that stuff it’s kind of frowned upon to talk about people being bad, right, but I would say that you went above and beyond most people who actually researched a little bit just to have an idea of what can happen and how can I deal with those things. 
 Chase Moore: And it’s like life usually we’re afraid of things we don’t understand And physical interactions and fighting and violence and all that. People don’t wanna understand it, people wanna pretend it doesn’t exist. So you make a victim out of yourself and you live in the darkness of not understanding why or how it works. And then if you choose to delve into these uncomfortable places in life, for me that would be finance, like I’d be like no, it’s terrifying to me, but like for violence, especially if we want to learn about anything and we shed light on these things. We bring awareness in. It takes a fear away in all these aspects of our life. 
 Chase Moore: So it’s a pretty cool way, not just through jujitsu, but just anything we’re willing to dive in and try to understand. We’re bringing light into the world through learning because we’re no longer afraid. When we learn things, it’s kind of hard to be fearful of them anymore. It’s always the stuff that we don’t know anything about. Like self-defence instructor in the States. He said if you’re afraid of the dark, turn on the light. And man, that’s like it’s not that hard. I lay in the dark all night and be afraid of it. Or I’d turn on the light and see what’s there And then, once I know what’s there, I’m no longer afraid of it. So kind of a cool thing that translates, through just jujitsu or whatever, all aspects of our lives. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, actually I started sleeping with my lamp on because I was not sleeping very well and I fall asleep much quicker when I have a lamp on And then halfway through the night I’ll turn it off when I wake up. But it’s interesting, it’s like, yeah, because in the darkness it’s harder to see And it’s, like you said, uncertain. So by having that light on, my physical body feels more relaxed, it feels safer, which means it’s easy to get to sleep. So it’s kind of like, yeah, like you’re saying, like with jujitsu being a physical thing, it’s like everything in life is physical in some way. And how can we? yeah, like you’re saying, with knowledge. It’s like knowledge creates, i guess, some certainty, which creates safety, and then it means we can relax, whereas if we’re always afraid or on edge or, like you were saying, we’ll make a victim out of ourselves. Absolutely, that’s cool, it’s really cool. And so have you ever had some, i guess, real life situations that you’ve had to apply your jujitsu training to? or Absolutely. 
 Chase Moore: yeah, i wish, and it’s always terrifying when it’s real. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, I bet You know. 
 Chase Moore: My wife and I were in Columbia and we had two guys attack us, to rob us And the great thing about at least where I was in my journey with life. I didn’t freak out And everything seemed to slow down Terrifying. But I was able to see the knife that the guys pulled And, without much emotion involved, I was able just to make calculated choices on how to not get robbed or how not to get stabbed to death. Wow. 
 Chase Moore: And I’ve had other times when I’ve had to use the concepts of jujitsu, of staying calm in pretty hairy situations that have kept me away from having to do anything physically Right. A lot of it is, you know, understanding where my ego sits and not letting my ego take too much charge of the situations, you know. Yes, so being able to stay calm even when people are, you know, in my mind trying to do things in just to me, but being able to deescalate those things And it’s cool. But you know, not that harp on jujitsu the whole time, like I’m sure it can get pretty boring for people. But I was talking to a friend the other day and we were talking about or since we’re all in this, like little medicine work bubble right of helping people and growing ourselves And sometimes there can be opportunities or, you know, events where we need to restrain people And Like during a ceremony During ceremonies and things, whatever they’re going through, you know can sometimes facilitate dangerous reactions for people And they may not necessarily be aware of it at the time. 
 Chase Moore: But being able to deescalate those things verbally, through touch, and not harming them, and having, even if somebody aggresses me, having the mindset not to escalate it higher, because nothing really good comes out of escalating those situations At least what I’ve seen in my 42 years of life Yeah, all right. 
 Chase Moore: So being able to be calm and deescalate those things And I think bringing that awareness into the picture for facilitators of medicine work, whatever it is, or certain kind of therapies, western therapies that people are doing can be very valuable And it can teach a lot to the facilitator or the therapist and bring a lot of confidence So they don’t feel like they have to escalate it. So kind of that cool thing Like I’m putting a curriculum together now to start offering that for facilitators in that role to where we can bring a lot of, how you say, like security right, the feeling of safety into those situations that maybe are not very safe from the outside perspective. But to be able to feel that and then use that to deescalate these situations, i think there’s a lot of benefit that can come with that For facilitators, people in general For sure, yeah, so That’s cool. 
 Chase Moore: Something I’m looking forward to. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, that’s really cool. Yeah, I think that’s something that would be really helpful, cause, sort of like you were saying, the end goal is not to get into a fight with someone, like you’re saying, it’s how can you deescalate it? And so it doesn’t get, cause, I guess, ultimately, like the last worst case scenario, your last resort is to get into a fight with someone Because of, obviously, safety, and especially with that guy with the knife, and so it’s like that practice of learning to deescalate it. And also, like, i guess, with other people, but also with yourself, because I know, as humans, like you’re saying, with the mind we work ourselves up, we believe these stories, And so how can we then use that to deescalate just in our own psyche? 
 Chase Moore: Absolutely. 
 Ellie Goode: Super cool. Yeah, wow, wow. And so you also mentioned you’re a Huachumero, is that? how you say it Yeah, do you want to talk a bit about? 
 Chase Moore: that. So I work with a cactus called San Pedro or Huachuma, kind of a lesser known psychedelic plant medicine ayahuasca being the thing everyone’s heard about Yep, San Pedro cacti or Huachuma is can have very similar effects Generally. It can help people through traumas. It can physically heal people. It can bring a lot of change in people’s lives. It’s a fantastic plant that’s absolutely changed my life on multiple levels and it continues to And I’m no guru or anything like that, and so I don’t know exactly how it works, but I know, as I’ve continued to use it and serve it for other people, it’s had a very beneficial impact on my life. 
 Chase Moore: Things just seem to get better and better, like I don’t know why, yeah, but it’s very, very cool. It’s very cool to be able to see change in people. For me, when I started, I was teaching Jiu Jitsu a pretty chill life but very unhappy, and if I put it down on a piece of paper I would have had 90% of the things that I wanted in life. I’m still like, why am I not happy? Like I couldn’t figure it out, and San Pedro cactus, along with ayahuasca, have been fantastic facilitators of me changing that feeling This, like it’s a feeling in my gut of depression, you know, changing my relationship with myself, And that’s why I continued to work with it because, just like Jiu Jitsu, I think I’ve seen the change in myself, so it’s undeniable for me, so I can bring benefit to myself and other people by continuing these practices. 
 Chase Moore: It’s a really fantastic plant And I see a lot of benefit with people who come through, who come and work with me or whatever Years down the line massive shifts in their life where they’re making really good decisions for themselves and treating themselves great and interacting with the world. That brings a lot of benefit to them And to this, you know, their environment around them or their whole family and their friend group, all of these things they changed based on. You know, maybe San Pedro was the catalyst for that at some point And that to me is like hallelujah, you know. Yeah, for sure. 
 Chase Moore: So you drank Huachuma. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, just a few times. But that’s how we met. Yeah, I remember, because when we moved here, I was like I’m not gonna drink any Plain Medicine for a while it’s not my thing, you know, I’m good And John’s like, yeah, give it to me all of it. So, and then I think we got here and within I think two weeks later, you were hosting a or running a ceremony with it was San Pedro and we came and met you. I remember that day. I was so out of it, yeah, and yeah, it’s an incredible medicine. Yeah, really, really. 
 Chase Moore: Absolutely. 
 Ellie Goode: Really cool. 
 Chase Moore: I’ve been a fly on the wall to see how much you’ve grown It’s in the short time that you all have been here. Yeah, and it’s. It’s great for me to see. If I remember correctly, you and John came over the house and we had a talk and I was like you were very, like, very standoffish. I’m like okay, yeah, and, and I’m alive. She was like well, do you think they’re gonna drink? and I’m like I don’t know, I’m not sure about Ellie Goode. She didn’t really say anything the whole time, but John, yeah, I think he will. So But it’s good to see like Almost like a rose opening. It seems like you you’re closed up and then you got some space and Now you’re blooming. 
 Ellie Goode: Yes, it’s really cool, like it’s been a pleasure to be able to drink is and ceremony with you as well. Like I Remember, before we came to Peru, john and I, like we just went through a whole bunch of shit with our family. I broke up with my boyfriend of five years and you know just everything was, you know, going crazy in Australia, and so we were like, yep, it’s time to go. So, yeah, we came here and, yeah, i remember, like meeting you and I was like, who’s this guy? And then I was like, oh, john, john. John said he had a good feeling. So I was like, okay, I’m just gonna do it. 
 Ellie Goode: I don’t know why, but I just, you know, like it’s with all the play medicine, i I don’t like you were saying, you know, i don’t know why I drink, in a sense, like I don’t have a Something that I can explain, to say I just feel this call or I just feel like this is what I meant to do, right, and, like you said, you know, like life just gets easier and more magical and Because you’re able to work through these, these traumas, and release and integrate these emotions in your, in your body, in your mind, and there’s just nothing else like it that I’ve, you know, discovered. It’s just so it’s been. It’s been really cool to be able to be in this, you know, in this space in Peru where we can drink plant medicine and drink you know San Pedro cacti and ayahuasca and have access to it, because it’s illegal in a lot of places and I know, you know. There’s possibly a lot of people that want to do it but can’t, or there’s, I know I did underground stuff in Australia, so, yeah, it’s interesting. 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, it’s tricky with the legality of these things And I find When people are Are Desperate, you know, either they give up or they find a Solution that’s not necessarily Inside the box of Western thinking or, you know, maybe even something that they They thought was possible and that was for me, you know, it really took a lot, being a Kid from Tennessee, to kind of step outside of that, like knowing that something had to change in my life and not knowing what it was. It’s terrifying, you know, and not having Options a lot of times. You know, the healthcare system in the West is Is for me in the amount of money I’m making. I was making at the time was just not an option unless I wanted to be in debt to, you know, the insurance, insurance companies for the rest of my life. So for this I was able to, you know, step out of a Of a Kind of my own box of thinking and give it a try, because I was pretty desperate, not that I was just Unsatisfied, thinking that there has to be more to life in this, you know. And then when you put all the things on paper and the things add up and you’re supposed to be fulfilled, then you have to really look for something. 
 Chase Moore: So You know, i have the utmost Respect for these plants and I, you know, i don’t see them necessarily as a panacea, like a well once I was fits all thing. I think people are Configured in such ways that they are Certain plants can’t help them and and for some people they don’t, you know, they don’t resonate with them or whatever, and that’s fine. And there’s other Methodologies and practices that we can start to integrate into our lives so that can bring change, bring those same changes with plant medicine Without doing them, you know. But for me, I think plant medicines were a fast track right, and I’ve been fortunate enough to see through friends and and People back home Who have been able to change their life drastically. In short, some out of time to bring happiness and joy, fulfilment into their lives through these plants, clarity and decision-making And just fantastic stuff. Yeah, i could go on and on. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, yeah it’s, it’s really cool. 
 Ellie Goode: I remember like I guess, going back to what we’re talking about was The second time I drank with you and you might not remember this, I don’t know, but I remember I was having a really good day. 
 Ellie Goode: I don’t know if I’ve ever had a good daylight that since, but, and I remember you came over to me and said, like it’s so good to see you happy And I was like like it’s so good to feel happy, you know, and like, just from like what. I think that was like a few weeks apart from that first time when I was so like freaked out and and everything. So like, just as an Example as to how, like, like I said, fast-tracking these plants can be, and Yeah, and like you can, like you say you can see it in in people, other people as well Just the evolution and and yeah, but but it agreed, like I, it isn’t necessarily a one-size-fits-all for every person and I think When people come to do this work if they’re, you know, coming from a place of, you know, i guess, openness or or receptivity, rather than you know someone telling them oh, you should do this, you know, like, like them coming to it on their own and Yeah, it’s interesting. 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, it’s a, it’s fascinating. 
 Chase Moore: Almost hate the word trauma now It’s so overused and, yeah, generalized, and But it’s kind of the best word we have for what a lot of people are doing dealing with right, and it doesn’t necessarily matter the severity of the trauma, because the energetic responses are the same yeah but You know, even for me, so being pretty pragmatic, to see people come in with very, very severe traumas may have worked with Western therapists for 10 years and seeing how people can start to change their perspective and start to release these, especially the mental concepts, the identity structures around their traumas Well, I’m a victim of XXX to see that start to change, and Immediately and then see how, when we start to unravel these Concepts and understanding and being aware and the kind of owning that, for a lot of people Who have had trauma, that it doesn’t define who they are. 
 Chase Moore: It happened, cool, it was an event. Who are you beyond that And and seeing people to start to really embody that, versus just carry that around as a concept? I think there’s so much Victimization in the world today, like as it’s, what makes you special is how victimized you are. I think that’s a terrible way to live. It must be very unpleasant. I mean, i did it for years. Yeah, it doesn’t work very well, it’s just not. 
 Chase Moore: There’s so many Great ways to go through life and those, you know, we can choose that hard, hard path of defining that way, but it’s, it’s not necessary and when we know we have a choice and we can change And you know most people go through life They don’t think they have a choice. So I have to do this. You know why? well, because that’s what everybody else does, you know like, oh well, i guess, once you see that you have a choice and you can choose the way you live, man, that to me is everything, right or wrong. You know, of course, i’m still learning every day, so I don’t have too many answers. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, reminds me of that that quote. I can’t remember who it was from, but I said. It says Whether you believe you can or you believe you can’t, you’re right, you’re right. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, absolutely like that is just The plants. Like you know, it’s so much of What we think or what we perceive. You constructs our whole reality. And so it’s like how do you step out of that and, like you said, de-identify with these traumas or these things of You know, like this is who I am and this happened to me and you know, the more we tell these stories to ourselves, the more ingrained they become. And so it’s like how and you might be able to answer this, but I guess it’s sort of like, how do you, you know, detach from that or de-identify from that and be a big part of that as the plants, obviously? But yeah, what, what have you found helps people do that? 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, the plants being number one, just bringing in Outside perspectives. Like I Used to tell people like for me, San Pedro’s like taking your glasses off and cleaning them. Yeah. 
 Chase Moore: Things may not look very different but, man, it’s a lot clearer. I’m changing my perspective and this is a tool that Allows you an Instant shift in perspective. For some people that might be travel, that might be spending time outside of their comfort zone, and it could be working with plants. Either way, if, if Those things are what allow us To kind of de-identify with like, oh man, things are a lot bigger than I thought they were. There are options. 
 Chase Moore: We start to remove these self-limiting beliefs. Oftentimes, you know, i talked to people during ceremony and usually It’s not any prescribed thing I’m saying, it’s just what’s coming out. But I talk to allow Those perspective shifts to start to come in, to be like, hey look, think about life this way, or Maybe just sit with that for a second and see how that Makes you feel you know, to start allow, allowing kind of the opportunity for change and so. So once we have and we see that opportunity, then we can decide if we want to live in the same Shit that we were living in before for depression, and or we can start to make Active changes outside of ceremony that benefit us. That that benefit, that change in our perception, the change in our identity starting to let go of these I’d Concepts that we held on to so tightly. But that’s me. You know all these Traumas. 
 Chase Moore: Without all that, I gotta hold on to it, you know, and once we and that’s the scary part, because when we start to let go of those things, we don’t know who we are, we don’t, we don’t know how we’re gonna act, we don’t. There’s nothing That gives us context when we step out of those roles, because that’s the way we’ve seen life for so long. Yeah, but to know, and then taking that step forward and be like, okay, well, I’m just, I have the ability to change, so I’m going to change through practices and through changing our habits, and we change slowly over time, and Then we can look back and be like man who was that. That was a totally different person. Still, you know, still us, but maybe not carrying around so much baggage with us and so many Bad ideas about ourselves and about life. So to me, i think that’s Prayer also. 
 Chase Moore: I think you know I don’t do it as much as I should because I have a two-year-old, But you know prayer and I don’t really care who you subscribe to pray to But those. That, to me, is a tool that you can use to start setting down these Identity structures that are holding you back or holding you in this victim mentality, when you don’t feel like you can let it go yourself. Yeah, you, sometimes we need help, you know, and that’s okay. We don’t have to do everything by ourselves. That’s why we have friends and family and and communities and There’s avenues of people All around us that can help us to start to change these structures. And that, to me, is such a blessing because when I started I thought I had to do it all by myself and Eventually you’ll realize that it’s impossible. Yeah, or it can become very painful And maybe not as easy as it could be, you know, or joyous, and we have Those opportunities, are alive for it to be. 
 Ellie Goode: You know our life experience to be joyous and fulfilled, not always easy, but You know, better than it was if you’re sick of Doing this journey alone, working on yourself, feeling like you’re really isolated and alone, and you’re looking for a community. If you are sick of Listening to your negative mind, tell you how shit you are all the time And you want to learn how to work with your nervous system and discharge this energy, this fight or flat energy that’s stuck in your body and Silence that mind. Automatically then go to sex, money, rage, calm and sign up for my free emails. I talk about psychedelics, nervous system, plant medicine and All the tools that have helped me release all of this survival stress from my body and how that has just totally transformed my life. So check it out sex, money, rage, calm. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, it’s interesting, like, like, with the whole concept of change, like you’re saying, just being a possibility or an openness, and then with people as well, just seeing, i guess, the different people in my life previously and the impact that had, and then say, coming here and drinking plant medicine with other people who are working on themselves and really, you know, searching inwards and just just seeing that contrast of like. Not one is not better than the other, but it’s just. It’s so cool to know there are really cool people out there who are working on themselves and aren’t, you know, abusing people still, you know or not still, but you know, to have people who are taking responsibility and and not victims and and like being around people who are actively doing that work is really encouraging and inspiring. And then, you know, like a big part of it John and I talk about is just the community that comes with these plant medicines of people sharing or this happened to me or this, or blah, blah, blah, and I guess kind of like collectively de-identifying from it all and, and you know, being in that unknown together. There’s a sense of comfort in that. 
 Ellie Goode: I think you know cuz like kind of going back to what you said about, you know, fear and uncertainty, kind of in jujitsu, it’s like like letting go of these stories. Like you said, there’s that fear and uncertainty. Well, who am I without this? and so to be in a group of people where everyone’s kind of feeling that it’s it makes it easier, i think, like you said, yeah yeah, yeah, for sure, you know. 
 Chase Moore: It’s the song like realizing that you’re not alone yeah, yeah, yeah, which is so nice yeah, absolutely. 
 Chase Moore: And so many people walked through life carrying their traumas or whatever, thinking that there’s no way anyone else around could understand what they’re going through. Okay, and I’ve been in the same spot. I’ve been like, well yeah, but mine’s special. And and then realizing that that is not what makes you special, that absolutely everybody around you understands the shit that you’re going through. Right, and it’s not any different. It may look a little different package differently, but it’s pretty much the same shit as everybody else. 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, and when we do, when we’re really honest. You know, for me, a lot of my work is and, trust me, it’s a practice for myself but it’s taking responsibility, being off and to and being very honest with myself and with everyone else around me, yeah, and when we start to really be honest and authentic and we tell people the shit that we’re going through, well, oh man, we, there’s so much reciprocity because people do understand that. You know, like a lot of the spiritual community from the outside, looking in, you’ll see a lot of these people who wear all white and they and maybe they have, i don’t know but they’ve somehow ascended past being human or being in the shit. Yeah, you know, yeah, and that’s always been very repulsive to me. Yeah, because maybe that’s my own configuration. But but for me, to be honest about what I’m going through and it changes as I’ve worked on myself, but consistently being honest, I’ve opened the door to see reflections in the people around me. So like, thank God, I’m not the only one who’s ever gone through this, you know, and just like earlier when I started working, the things that I’ve been able to release, release then was based on that and they continually get deeper and deeper and I’m still changing things, you know, working on myself and still trying to be as honest with myself as possible and the people around me. 
 Chase Moore: And the more you know it’s a practice and the more honest I can be and the more authentic and the more I can own who I am and what I’m dealing with, the easier it is for me to work through it and to have community around you. You know, i find that it’s, it’s developed. You know, our community especially has been developed about by doing that, being authentic and surrounding ourselves with other people who are on that path of authenticity, taking responsibility for ourselves and man. That’s a very cool thing. There’s an overwhelming amount of help out there for anyone when they open up to the idea of that, of being honest, and they’ll see it and they’ll see that they’re not alone. Man. What a beautiful thing. When you start to see it and you start to accept help like fuck, life can be really great yeah, for sure, for sure. 
 Ellie Goode: I was gonna say you mentioned, yeah, the authenticity and and honesty, and I think something I guess I’ve noticed is, you know, like being around people who are like that, you become like like I mean, we all know you become like the people you hang out with, and so being in a community or being around like being careful with who you surround yourself with in terms of people and and seeing that it gets easier to be authentic and honest when you’re around people who are authentic and honest, and to then notice when there are people who aren’t like that and that not resonating and being like okay, like I’m not gonna partake in that and just kind of you can disengage or you can whatever it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s something that you have noticed a lot, as well as just just the influence of just different people and and just the power of community, like it’s really cool. 
 Chase Moore: Why do I’m gonna ask you a question? why do people not want to be who they are? I’ve got my thoughts, yeah. 
 Ellie Goode: I’m curious. I I think fear based based on my personal experience. 
 Ellie Goode: I think fear because the reason I didn’t want to be who I was was fear yeah and because the stories I had gave me certainty, gave me a paradigm or a container or a framework to look at the world, to look at myself through. And if I didn’t have that, then what am I doing with my life? and you know who am I and you know it’s it’s like for me, a big part of it was to feeling control. This is who I am it’s predictability. 
 Ellie Goode: There’s a story of you know, like, even like with, i’ve been doing a lot of, i guess, self-inquiry with my mind and for so long I thought the part of my mind that was arguing with my mind was me, but it’s like. No, it’s just not the part of my mind fighting with my mind, like none of that is me. And so, you know, a friend actually messaged me the other day and said you know, like, can I ask you a question like who are you? and I, and I just said I don’t know and I don’t care anymore. Like I, i think I started to really see, like especially over the last six months, just just how rampant the stories were in my head and how I perceived myself a certain way, and that was just all rooted in fear. Yeah, so I imagine for a lot of people it is rooted in fear because people, people want certainty and and uncertainty creates like what’s gonna happen, you know, and and. 
 Chase Moore: But you can move past that for sure yeah, yeah, i would say you know to specify, even fear of rejection, when you’re not really yourself. And then you’re rejected by society or your community, then it’s like, well, they’re not really rejecting me, that’s a good point, they’re just rejecting part of me, my mask? yeah, but if I am myself? and then what if I’m rejected for being me? that’s pretty terrifying, right? yeah, a total separation from God like you’re not worthy. That can be terrifying. 
 Chase Moore: It is terrifying for a lot of people totally so yeah, so when people start to come into themselves or to be in there are, it can be terrifying. But what I’ve seen is that the more we’re open to that, maybe our environment changes and maybe our social circles change, because maybe we don’t resonate in those situations before like we did before. But then we start to fall into places you know that carry our frequency or that are beneficial for us not to sound like but we’re starting to kind of fall into our groups that benefit us and we benefit them yeah instead of pretending that we fit somewhere that we don’t. 
 Chase Moore: And it seems to happen kind of just naturally, you know, over time, and the more we do it, the more we find people that we resonate with that are really beneficial for us and we’re really beneficial for them. And that’s subject to change all the time doesn’t mean I love them any less, you know. Doesn’t mean the people that I rarely get to see from five years ago that doesn’t mean I love them any less. I just I’m not engaged in that environment anymore. 
 Ellie Goode: So I don’t know, i’ll stop talking no, no yeah, it’s interesting because it’s like, you know, we have all these stories about. This is who I am and this is where I’ve come from and this is why I am the way I am and and ultimately, what I’m realizing, at least for me, is they’re all just stories, they’re all just ideas. You know, none of it is really reality, none of it is really who I really am, and to keep these stories circulating takes so much energy, i imagine, you know, like mentally, physically, because something I’ve noticed too is, especially recently, i have a thought that pops up into my mind and then I act based on that thought. And I’ve really noticed, and I can. I catch it a lot of times where I’m like I’m not gonna follow that, but you know, i might be like I wonder what so-and-so is doing, and then straight away I take an action and I go and Google something you know, and so I’m really seeing just the power that the mind can have and and just the amount of energy it takes and consumes. 
 Ellie Goode: And for me, like, the more I separate from my mind, like there’s like that fear comes up and so it’s like maybe that’s what I that’s where I need to go into is to go into that fear and feel it. 
 Ellie Goode: You know, like you’re saying, all these people are all about the light and living in the light, and and I think there also can be a tendency to live in the shadow or in the darkness all the time and be in your trauma, and so it’s finding, i guess, that balance of feeling the emotion as well as like having it, i guess, in a container where you know you’re noticing your environment while you’re feeling the fear, rather than just being caught up in a story in your head over and over again. Right, yeah, so that’s, i guess, just something I’ve been playing with lately, which the plans have been helping with. But yeah, it’s almost like you know, we avoid, you know, letting go of these stories or traumas because we’re afraid, and it’s like if we just we’re able to sit with that fear or feel that fear, you know, would we need those stories anymore. 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, and why are we afraid of it? 
 Ellie Goode: yeah, great question yeah familiar, you know. 
 Chase Moore: So, yeah, just like we were talking about earlier, we’re afraid of things we don’t know, yeah. So yeah, pretty cool with all of this work. You know, like, what’s the purpose of it? you know what. 
 Ellie Goode: What’s the purpose of it for the mission statement, for you for me, like, why do I do this work or engage with the plants? yeah, it’s a good question, i have to say I just I really believe in it. I, like you said, like I I’ve seen the change in myself and in other people that have done this path. And that’s not to say I know people who have had plant medicine and not done the work, or you know. So I’m not to say like it’s a or whatever. 
 Ellie Goode: It’s not like a, a band-aid or one-size-fits-all solution, but for me, i guess the reason I keep coming back to it is it just helps me release so much pain and and fear and it helps me just connect with, i guess, who I am on of in a felt sense yeah and that’s not something I guess I can put into words. 
 Ellie Goode: I am this or I am that, because that that’s not it, but I guess things that I used to find really hard are so much easier, whether it’s, you know, being assertive with people. You know, i never used to confront anyone because I was so afraid what if I lose my job, or what if I you know this happens, or what if they blow up at me? you know, i was always living in that fear-based perspective and the more I do this work, the more that fear releases and I’m able to stand up and say I don’t care how this person responds. I’m not compromising this part of me, you know. I’m setting a boundary or whatever it is. You know, all of that stuff just comes so much more naturally now and, yeah, life, just like you said, gets easier and more magical and and like so much is possible. You know, and that’s that’s what keeps me coming back anyway. Yeah, how about you? 
 Chase Moore: yeah, pretty similar. 
 Chase Moore: You know my goalposts shift, you know, throughout life, yeah, but for me the reason that I continue to do this is because it helps people and it still helps me. 
 Chase Moore: I’m not above change by any means, but I, like with anything in life, i think it’s important to step back and ask yourself why we started and see if we’ve rectified that. 
 Chase Moore: And a lot of times in in these circles or with any skill set, when people start they have one goal in mind and then they kind of as they progress down the the process of learning that skill, then they their goal changes and maybe they never look at their original goal or never meet it. 
 Chase Moore: And that, for me, is a big thing to keep reminding people when they come down here through integration or however, why they started and be like hey look, i want you to be the best you that you can be in your environment, you know, so you can go do cool stuff in life and and not necessarily that you know, if you come down and and work with plants for depression or trauma and you have a clear goal on that, that we meet that and then hopefully you can go out and do life, you know, whatever your goals are, they’ll be it easier to achieve. So I don’t know. It’s always good to have that perspective of being like man. Just take a step back and see how far you’ve come and and see if you’re living in a way that you know is meeting your original goals and then also meeting your new ones, you know, as they change. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, it’s cool, very cool stuff and I think too, like I had a conversation with a friend the other day about they’re not doing doing plants, they’re doing therapy sessions, but they said, oh, you know, i just I don’t know if it’s making any difference, and I just said, like it is, like I can see it, you know, and I think It’s sometimes very hard to see how far we ourselves have come, like we’re our own worst critic, and When we’re in it It’s it’s hard to see it. 
 Ellie Goode: So, like, like you said, having that step back, yeah, and sometimes, like I found, maybe that’s Writing down just what my life was like a year or two ago, right, and then being like, comparing it to now, being like, oh shit, like, yeah, there’s a lot of change, you know, and and so there’s different ways to, i guess, do that. But, yeah, having that time to step back and go, yeah, like what is shifting and yeah, is it in alignment with what I set out to achieve, i think that’s a really good point. Yeah, and so How did you find San Pedro? What brought you to San Pedro? 
 Chase Moore: or plant medicine. Usual story I came down here to drink ayahuasca and didn’t know what San Pedro cactus was and and Had the opportunity to drink San Pedro on the retreat that I was doing you know thinking oh man, I’m gonna drink ayahuasca and tell everybody I’m fixed. 
 Chase Moore: But I drank San Pedro on that same And at the time, for whatever reason, ayahuasca wasn’t really calling me but San Pedro was. It was the most transformative experience, the first time I drank San Pedro of my life and, like You know, those are pretty strong words, for but at the time that was the case And there was something in it, you know, without Defining it necessarily, and there was, there was something in there for me and I wasn’t sure what it was. So I went on the retreat and and It just stayed in the back of my mind and. 
 Chase Moore: Then about I don’t know, six months or a year later, i sold all my stuff and Came to figure it out. 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, and you just bought like a one-way plane ticket or did, actually had to buy a return flight at the time Even though I knew I wasn’t coming back, so that was unfortunate. But yeah, got a one-way ticket and Came down with a backpack and He showed up at Bernard’s door and He was in the middle of ceremony. He’s like what I was like Hey, i’m back. He’s like, looking back on it, what a mess I was, how ridiculous I was. But he graciously, you know, took me in and Taught me so much about being a human Through time and and San Pedro as well. 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, It was a, it was an adventure. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, and, and so have you. Have you lived in Peru ever since then, or you went, you did a stint back in Poland. 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, went back to the US. I don’t know, the timelines are kind of confusing for me. It all seems like it’s Especially the older I get, like things. I was like, oh my god, that was 10 years ago, you know, or whatever. But yeah, we spent some time in Poland. I went with my wife there for a year and we try to do that Very short stints in the US. But the year I spent Poland I was, i Could tell I didn’t fit there, like viscerally, like I was. It was very hard time for me and Peru was Calling me back and so I pretty much Told my wife I was like, well, we have to go back or I have to. I don’t know what you have to do, but I’m gonna die if I stay here And I didn’t want that to happen. 
 Chase Moore: But a lot of this growing process for me was was learning how not to fight So hard, to Feel as if I had to burn new paths everywhere that I went, that it had to be always a struggle, like life had to be hard, like because I didn’t want to do it conventionally or whatever in my Silly brain was telling me that things have to be hard and you can’t do things the way That that are easier, it’s over for me, kind of Feeling that and then and then understanding that man, i can ask for help and I can put myself in environments that are conducive to my growth as a human and and Where things aren’t always hard. And for me I Represented that so Interesting. I had a friend of mine drinking with me that lives in the States, there about a month ago, and she asked she’s like well, you have your nice little community here and Do you not feel like you’re running away from the world? I thought about that for a while and And I’ve had that thought before and not with any validity for myself, but I told her, i said I Have a finite amount of time, you know, unless things radically shift, but there’s only so many hours in the day and I Want those hours To be used in a way that are fulfilling for me. And Wherever we go, we trade in one set of problems for another, but not from a place of like running away. 
 Chase Moore: But maybe those things make life a certain amount easier So that we can be more useful and we can really, you know, be Stewards of our environment and create communities and we can do Good things that fulfil us and fulfil our community and fulfil our environment, instead of fighting so hard to try to change a system that’s Broken on, so that I don’t I don’t have the tools Necessarily or the will to try to change it. And there are people that are doing that and I’m thankful for them. You know people who out there that are Changing their environment to the way they see that’s helpful for them By staying in their environment, and for me it required a physical movement For me to feel that way. Maybe one day it won’t, you know, maybe I’ll Transcend all that, but right, but until then I feel like I’m doing Really good work and I have a great family and man. It’s not always easy, but man it’s. 
 Chase Moore: It’s really fun to be alive Because it’s fulfilling you know, and that’s that’s one of the things I want for everybody whoever comes in Works with us. You know that’s what we’re trying to provide that, that sense of fulfilment and and Giving people the tools that they they need and want to live a fulfilled and and life with The capacity for joy in there also. Yeah, Yeah, because it’s like you know another, I guess. 
 Ellie Goode: Go back to your question like, why do we do this work? It’s something I chat with our friend Nikki about. is it’s to feel joy? Yeah, and so It’s like if you’re always, you know, in the work, or if you’re. 
 Ellie Goode: You know not doing what you feel is fulfilling. Then what’s the point? You know, like, like you said, like the end goal is to be fulfilled, whether that’s in a little tiny village in the mountains in Peru, or whether that’s in a big city in the US, or, and you know, it’s gonna probably look different for every person. And so you know, it’s like, you know, it’s like you know it’s like you know it’s like you know, it’s like you know it’s like. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah and so, yeah, it’s, it’s cool that you know you’ve, you’ve found what makes you fulfilled for now, yeah, like it’s gonna always changing subject to change. Yeah, yeah, and helping other people connect with that You know in them because, like it is, it’s different for everyone. 
 Chase Moore: So yeah, but once we have the tools, we can apply them however we want. Yeah so. If this, for whatever reason, becomes unfulfilling for me at some point, i can still have those tools To make my life fulfilled, sure, and I think you know supplying Those things to people who don’t have that, i mean. that’s why I was depressed I Wasn’t fulfilled and I didn’t know how to get there. 
 Chase Moore: Yeah but if we can start to, you know, supply those tools that people would give them, that then they can go out and find however it is to make them feel fulfilled and that to me is like a For now, the, a very important part of being a complete human. Yeah, we do. That will change the world. Yeah, slowly but surely. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, And that’s it, like everyone takes on the tools, and I guess it comes back to like you know, i, it’s not like you’re a guru coming in and healing people and fixing their problems. It’s like and same with Felix and Safa, the ayahuasca retreat people. You know it’s like here’s some tools, like you go figure it out, you know, or you go work with the plants and and you know It’s very empowering and it sometimes that can be difficult because we’re like, oh, like I, i can’t do this on my own And like I’m a victim. I’ve been there, you know, but I think, yeah, i remember those one ceremony where I was like I need help and and you, just you and John looked at me Like she’s fine, you know, it really helped me be like I am fine, you know, i am okay, i do, i can handle this. 
 Ellie Goode: You know, giving people that power back, of giving people the tools, yeah, it’s super cool, yeah, it’s doing great work. Yeah, yeah, super cool. And so I guess, for people who say Most people probably haven’t heard of of San Pedro, but what, could you just give a bit of a, maybe an explanation of what, what a, what a ceremony looks like? 
 Chase Moore: when you run one. Yeah, yeah, it’s pretty informal, so nobody’s wearing feathers or Too many beads. there’s some beads every now and then, but we started in the morning pretty early and we fast that morning, we say some prayers and open up the ceremony space and I serve the medicine and then It’s pretty much a day of silent meditation. So people can engage with me as much as they want and, and outside of that they keep up, keep to themselves As an opportunity just to sit with the medicine. I’m there for help and support and work. If people need to move something They don’t know how. That’s what I’m there for. But, like you said, it’s about empowerment. So for me, when People are going through a process, if I can show them that they can do it themselves, the more removed I can be, like I don’t have to be involved in everything. It’s about empowerment for the person, and So people are in the garden by themselves and they can just engage with nature, go internally and engage with their mind and their body And we see what comes up. 
 Chase Moore: My intention for the past Four years I don’t think it’s changed once. Whenever I start a ceremony and that it’s I ask God and San Pedro That this ceremony is exactly what the person needs for that day. So I Take some credit for what I do in the ceremonies, but for me to think I know what somebody needs on that day is a little bit egoistic. So I try to step away from that and my Ideas of what things should look like and really allow the plants to show me. If I’m needed there to help, then I will and And show me what the people need that day individually. The the medicine Works differently on everyone time and time again and Sometimes I’ll think I’m gonna see this and I don’t. So it’s a. It’s a good reminder for me that I’m not as smart as I think, so Relying on a bigger worldview of maybe than what I have to give Whoever is drinking there the absolute best that the plant can give them and that what I can give them for them on that day. 
 Chase Moore: And you know, as the day goes on, we’ve finished the ceremony there about eight to ten hours and then we, you know, we hang out together, have food and soup and kind of like it’s a, it’s a communion, it’s an opportunity for us to kind of shut out the outside world and and Enjoy each other’s presence. You know, after the ceremony and during the ceremony it’s for us to enjoy God, enjoy the environment, enjoy mother nature and Really Work on ourselves. It’s not always pleasant, it’s. We hope for rainbows and unicorns all the time, but we don’t always get them. You know, we’re we’re brought with What is needed on that day and so, as far as what this People’s experiences are, i don’t really Speak too much on it because they’re so vastly different And I don’t want to put expectations into people’s heads because a lot of times if people think it’s gonna look a certain way right, it will. 
 Chase Moore: And If we limit Our concepts of what’s possible, then What’s possible is only what’s gonna happen. So as much as we can remove those expectations from ceremony, the more Ability we allow for miraculous things to happen. So yeah, but it’s cool, you know it’s about bringing love and and healing and and Really like Bringing upgrade into your life. So it’s, we can heal and heal and heal. And as long as we’re digging for Trash and us, we’re gonna find it. And then eventually we have to upgrade and we have to grow around those aspects of ourselves. They’ll move with time. So it’s not always about being How are we seeing how horrible over what’s wrong with us, but allowing us to grow and expand and see joy and in The greater picture and the greater aspects of ourselves that we should be thankful for, and Bringing that gratitude and light into the ceremony space. That’s kind of what a ceremony looks like. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, it’s super cool. It’s like It’s like yeah, you mentioned like those trash parts and I think you said to me one day, like help me realize, like Like the more I push it away or resist it, like that’s just gonna make it grow, and just If there’s like a way to just accept it. And that was like a game changer. I think for me of just like You’re seeing, like there’s a reason we have, there’s a reason we have all these different parts of ourselves and there’s a purpose, and Like our job is not necessarily to get rid of them but just to, like you said, create space and And surrender, i guess at the end of the day. 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, you know a Lot of those aspects of ourselves that we don’t like. They’re still part of us. So, yeah, you know there’s a whole Instagram culture of preaching self-love and They’re usually Accompanied by a Picture of somebody at their best right, all the aspects that they like about themselves. So they give off that. We’re kind of vibe, i would. 
 Chase Moore: Self-love to me is loving like the trash aspects, the dirtiest parts, and with that It’s hard because you know myself included I want it gone. I don’t want it to be in my psyche, but the more I push it away and the more I push these old patterns that aren’t serving me away, the more they cling on. So so, seeing them, accepting them Not that we don’t want to change or get grow or get better, but accepting them from a place Oh okay, you’re here, now You’re part of me I Need to learn to love this aspect of myself as much. You know, much like Christ loving the sinners. You know we have to love the sinful aspects of ourselves. We don’t always act on those things, but we have certain aspects that we don’t agree with. So given those aspects space to feel Accepted and then we can start to integrate them and maybe they no longer hold the charge That they did when we push them away and be like, no, you don’t exist. 
 Chase Moore: You know, I start to bring balance into our life As a way of kind of taking that mask down right, this mask of perfection that we like to carry around with us, or our work mask right, or whatever. I mean like, yeah, man, sometimes I’m a real piece of garbage. I Don’t necessarily like it about myself, but I am and and being honest about the that and allowing it to kind of Be honest and be felt out there so that we can start to move it, we can clear, we can change our patterns, our patterns of thought, our patterns of behaviour around those aspects And bring it to the light. You know, and once we understand those aspects, they don’t hold the charge, they don’t hold the fear of letting them out right, yeah, we don’t suppress them so much. Yeah, Yeah super cool. 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, cool stuff Yeah. 
 Ellie Goode: So cool. So if say, people wanted to say connect with you or find out more about, I guess, working with San Pedro cacti. Where can they connect, like with your website? 
 Chase Moore: Oh yeah our website is the spirit cooperative dot com, so there’s a link where you can reach out via email to me. And we’re in the process of restructuring our, our scheduling some for the upcoming year, so that’s gonna change, and so our dates are not well represented on our website, but hopefully in the next month We’ll have that taken care of. But feel free to reach out via email at any time and I’ll get back to you as soon as I can. And And San Pedro is pretty fantastic and there’s not much research about it out there, but if you feel called, we’d love to have you with us. You know, if you’re having a rough time in life, you don’t know a way out or see a horizon, necessarily. Please feel free to reach out, and And I don’t have all the answers or most of them, but I can tell you what I think and I can Help. Anyway. That is afforded to me. So yeah, absolutely so cool. 
 Ellie Goode: Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. 
 Chase Moore: Yeah, thanks for having me, Yeah. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, of course, of course, and yeah, i have to get you back on again sometime, yeah talk about something else. Yeah, we’ll see what your new goals are. 
 Chase Moore: But thank you so much. 
 Ellie Goode: Yeah, no worries. No worries, That’s it. That’s a wrap. Thank you so much for listening. If you made it this far, congratulations. You are a true fan. And before you go, if you haven’t clicked subscribe or follow yet, please do and make sure notifications are ticked and I will see you all next week.